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A new thread for the sake of a new thread...
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Entered on: September 3, 2008 12:58 PM by RobotSpider
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I'm starting a new thread because, as herny as it makes me, I've
seen enough of Bone's Home-Porno Audition picture. If you all want to go on
measuring cranks and weighing your stool samples to see who could build a bigger
adobe hut, have at it. You want to know what I had for my Pri-Man Breakfast?
An 8oz glass of "Who Cares", and four slices of "Not Your B'dness".
On to the real issue. Well, if Palin doesn't bring anything
else to the Republican ticket, the biggest elephant in the room is definitely
hers. Abstinence works great! I heard someone yesterday talk about how
'courageous' her daughter was for keeping her baby. Uh huh. I'm sure it's her
decision. They also said "...nice to see a young mother who won't turn out to
be welfare-mother..." Well, sure, I'm guessing it'll be hard for her to support
her baby all by herself with nothing but a part-time job, a team of nannies, the
Secret Service (if they get elected... yeah, right), and scraping by on the mere
millions her public-servant mother managed to save while on the Alaskan Petroleum Resources Council, or some
shit.(Allow me to finish your thought: "But she was on the ethics committee, she
worked against the oil companies." Yeah. Sure she did. Now can you
please move your Unicorn? He's blocking the driveway to my solid-gold
house.)
You douche-nozzle. The bottom line here is that she's on the
ticket to shore up the Nazi end of the spectrum. Oh, that and she has a
vagina. I love that that's how they're going to win 'swing' voters. If you
don't know who you're going to vote for yet, and the VP selection makes a
difference, go to the basement and get some wire-snips (go ahead, I'll wait).
Now, cut off your nuts, and drop them in a mailbox labeled "return to sender".
If the only thing that your vote hinges on is the number of X's and Y's in the
chromosomal make-up of the ticket, you need to do some more reading (and no,
that doesn't include magazines), and I don't want you dropping a deuce in the
gene pool.
I am not against a VP (or president) that is a woman. I
just think it's senseless to pick a VP (or president) because she is a
woman. Irma
Grese was a 'strong conservative woman' too, but I
wouldn't vote for her because of it. Pick a political party because of issues,
even if you're on the wrong side. Remember, the Republicans aren't breaking any
gender barriers here, come November, Palin will be the second woman to lose the
vice-presidency.
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NEWS 560 - 228 Comments
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Why's Spider whispering? I don't think using a normal sized font takes up any more system resources, Spider. I'm damn-near 40 years old... Font up, motherfucker!
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Okay Spider - I cut n pasted your text, resized to legible status and read your post.
Good stuff!
Watching some of the RNC, I get a kick out of how much they talk about McCain's "maverick" status, as in: "I know our party sucks, but he's like totally not like the rest of us!"
I wonder if Fred Thompson is still clearing his throat? (Will someone get him a lozenge?)
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I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Zilla.
By the way, Robot, I agree with you.
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I can't even watch TV anymore because all the retards keep talking about is Sarah Palin's kid's kid.
Who the fuck cares!!!!
Is that big enough for you Zilla? I know, last night you said it was.
Again, Like I said four years ago, I wish there was a site that disussed the candidates positions with an unbiased viewpoint.
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Cool. Thanks a lot. I like how it leaves both sides wide open.
By the way, the link itself didn't work, I had to type www.factcheck.org into the browser. Then it went there.
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Jackzilla said:
Why's Spider whispering? I don't think using a normal sized font takes up any more system resources, Spider. I'm damn-near 40 years old... Font up, motherfucker!
I often copy the text to a text-editor like Word to spell check before posting. Nothing ruins a good rant like missspellling. I think that's where the bad font translation happens.
Here's a trick for you Windows users... If you have a mouse with a wheel on it, hold the <Ctrl> key and wheel your mouse in and out. If you're on a web page, it will resize your text on the fly. Works in other programs too, but definately in IE and Firefox. If you're using *nix, I don't know how to do it, but I'm pretty sure it involves recompiling the kernel and banging the bash with vi... or something...
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Jackzilla said:
NickNick - I use this site sometimes: http://factcheck.org/
They quote that site on NPR quite often which in itself tells you the Republicans will say it's "typical liberal media". Of course anything off the talking points of the day is considered liberal media.
As far as McCain's 'maverick' status, this is something Bush's Whitehouse has done for YEARS. If you say it often enough, loud enough and from enough speakers, eventually people (mostly the unwashed southern-state masses) will believe you. So not only do they bend the truth or outright lie, they actually tell you the OPPOSITE of the truth.
"We do not torture, under any circumstance."
Uh, what about water-boarding?
"That's not torture"
Why not?
"Because we do that, and we don't torture. If we do it, it isn't torture."
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Another cool trick is to press <Ctrl>+<Alt> the down arrow
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Or Ctrl + or - on Firefox 3..... which... FUCK ROBOT!!!! Where is my advice. Don't go changing subjects when fellow JAs are asking questions from you!! You gots 'sponsibilities!
Hop to it BEYOTCH if you are going to usurp Ross' Guru status!
Does Fatty get a Macbook or what???
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To be honest, Fatty, I don't think there's any REAL difference between the two. I know there are DIFFERENCES but nothing that jumps out and says this one is better than that one. I went through school using a Mac for all of my graphics but had a PC at home. I always thought Macs were better if you were focusing the more on graphics.... but now I do all of my stuff on the PC.
Mac's run Windows. PC's run Adobe and Macromedia software. I just don't think there's a huge difference. I've always heard that macbooks are more expensive than your standard powerbook.
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BigFatty said:
Does Fatty get a Macbook or what???
I don't know about usurping Bert's title, but I'm happy to give my opinion, solicited or otherwise.
First things first. Having been to the Mac store at the mall a few times now, my observation is this:
If Apple made razors, would Mac users shave?
Assuming you have some sort of facial hair, that's a +1 in the Mac column. Now, having spent my time supporting PCs and, very early on, Macs, I like to generalize that PCs are for work and Macs are for everything else. Now, I know you're thinking "but I use my Mac at work...", but no, you don't. You might use a Mac at work, but whatever you call it, you aren't doing work. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is, and I'm not enlightened enough to believe otherwise. Any computer that still has a one-button mouse so users "don't get too confused" can't possibly take itself seriously. And don't give me that "but you can get multi-button mice for Macs..." argument. Stop trying to cloud my logic with facts.
Ok, the ugly generalizations out of the way, I have actually owned a Mac, though it was over a decade ago. I have also owned a few iPods, and I recently purchased a 16GB iPhone, and have to say I am really iMpressed. Sorry, iT's a habiT. No other phone, pda, or other piece of technology so seemlessly integrates cool software with cutting-edge hardware and sleek, clean interface design. I have spent time with probably a dozen Pocket PC based pdas, and I always wanted them to work better than they did. They were always less stable, and less intuitive than they should have to be.
So, given their direction in the market, and the fact that the Internet is the source and destination of most communications now anyway, compatibility is not an issue. I'd say get whatever you want, you won't regret it. If you are looking for reasons not to get a Mac, I don't think there are any serious contenders.
You're welcome for the advice opinion. If you can break a dime, I'll take a nickel and three pennies.
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I'm probably going to open myself up for a verbal ass whooping and I'm thanking the gods that Ross isn't contributing to this site right now..... but......
Did anyone watch the RNC last night? I was impressed with Sarah Palin. She came across as an honest individual that wasn't going to play the same finger pointing games that we've gotten used to over the last 20 years.
She actually cast a little nugget of doubt in to who I want to vote for. A little nugget, mind you. Not a big Bells-size whopper.
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I thought she delivered the prepared text well, but that the content was lacking. I s'pose it's the VP's job to be the attack dog, but I would have preferred to hear some policy ideas. But then she's only been in VP mode for a few days.
I like how she's portrayed as good for not being part of the Washington establishment, because that would be bad. Unless you're John McCain, then Washington experience is good. But not good if you're Barack Obama with no Washington experience... and bad because Joe Biden is part of Washington (like McCain, which isn't bad for him)... or something like that...
One thing is clear: The Republican Party is the real party for change!
In the meantime... Fred Thompson is still clearing his throat.
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I just watched her bio video that was supposed to air last night and they need to lose the Maverick crap.
She did do a good job. As for the MAC, I just got the new iPhone and it is sweet! In fact, I missed her speech last night and was able to watch it on You Tube on my phone this morning!
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"We should not even be talking about Sarah Palin because it's sexist."
We really should not be talking about this election at all. Because if we talk about Obama then we're racist. Palin is sexist. McCain would be age discrimination. About the only person we can talk about would be Joe Biden because he's your average white male.
Thanks Political Correctness!!
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Oooohhhhh... Whats a Fatty to do???? More research later, it is up between the Macbook and the Dell Studio 15. Both are fairly similar on specs, but the Dell has a bit more on offer. Similar price. The Mac I could get a free iTouch thrown into the deal.. but the 5.1 sound is not so easy to come by. Plus, will the Macbook intergrate with my Xbox to stream media files, hook up to my TV with a solid HD connection (It has a mini DVI out)? The Dell will work with my Xbox media center, has a HDMI out, and I can get a sweet USB 5.1 Sound Blaster card for the 5.1 CHEAP!! Without the free iTouch, I would lean more the Dell. BUT... I hear so many sweet things on the Mac.....
But with the iTouch, I can sell and make $250-300 bucks here... and have a sweet Mac.. but it may not hook into my system and make a sweet FatStation 5.1 THX Dolby Digital.
Ross.... get over it.... we need you back!!!
Robot - thanks for the thoughts. Your opinions have creditability and are in my considerations.
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Fatty, I am not a big fan of the Dell's. I have one currently for work, and they are cheap. But we also have 3 laptops in a drawer that died at the 3 year mark.
The last computer we purchased was an HP laptop an it is super sweet.
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I've heard the Dell's suck lately. The sweet thing about the Macbook is you can run windows on it with bootcamp.
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BigFatty said:
Oooohhhhh... Whats a Fatty to do???? More research later, it is up between the Macbook and the Dell Studio 15. Both are fairly similar on specs, but the Dell has a bit more on offer. Similar price. The Mac I could get a free iTouch thrown into the deal.. but the 5.1 sound is not so easy to come by. Plus, will the Macbook intergrate with my Xbox to stream media files, hook up to my TV with a solid HD connection (It has a mini DVI out)? The Dell will work with my Xbox media center, has a HDMI out, and I can get a sweet USB 5.1 Sound Blaster card for the 5.1 CHEAP!! Without the free iTouch, I would lean more the Dell. BUT... I hear so many sweet things on the Mac.....
But with the iTouch, I can sell and make $250-300 bucks here... and have a sweet Mac.. but it may not hook into my system and make a sweet FatStation 5.1 THX Dolby Digital.
Ross.... get over it.... we need you back!!!
Robot - thanks for the thoughts. Your opinions have creditability and are in my considerations.
I am able to connect my iPods and my iPhone to the 360 to play the (non copy-protected) music. Presumably, if you set the Mac up as a TCP/IP client on your network, with the PC-compatible file-sharing services enabled, you should be able to browse it and play music/photos/videos/etc. Though I did set up the Windows XP media sharing with the 360, and even that took quite a while to set up, and doesn't always work. Sometimes the 360 can see it, other times it can't. It took a lot of port-forwarding on the router (no Windows firewall at all. F- that shiite).
Honestly, I'd go the other direction with the media center thing. I know the iPhone can be used as a (really nice) wireless remote for iTunes, so I assume the iTouch can as well. With that and an AirPort, you could distribute music to any/every room in the house right from your computer, and control it with the iTouch. That doesn't take care of the movie surround sound, but it's a nice way to distribute and control your music. And remember, the 360 is not a classic XBOX; with as often as they fail (usually due to heat), you probably don't want to leave it running 24/7 so it's available to distribute media. I'd let your PC/Mac do that job no matter what you go with. I think the AirPort is around $100, so it's a pretty approachable solution.
Bone, you're partly right, Dell did suck until the last year or two when they've actually gotten better again. That's totally anecdotal, so don't ask for the proof :) I've just had better luck with them than any other PC maker lately. I've purchased at least 10 Dells a year for the last 5 or 6 years (not for me, but for work or family/friends), and they have gotten over their past issues, mostly. They've also moved a lot of their tech support back to the states, in case "having to talk to someone who doesn't speak English" is a problem. Might not be, but it's a complaint I hear a lot. That said, they still do outsource support a bit, so it may still happen.
If you're going with a PC, I'd go Dell. If you're going Mac, I'd go... well... with Mac. As far as PC vs. Mac, it's still up to you :)
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Hey Fatty, Microsoft just dropped the prices on the 360 again! $299 for a regular console, $399 for the Elite which includes the HDMI cable. Time for you to get on it!
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Damn you Robot!!!! You are selling me both! I like both of them more now. My 360 Fund got diverted into the Eat Like a Hog in America Fund when I am there NEXT MONTH!!! Hope all you peeps are excited.
Back on topic... Who the hell is Palin???? Why is she the next best thing to sliced bread? Granted I've only seen negative images of her ('Whats a VP do on a daily basis??). But what has really pissed my off is the Spin Doctors. I just want to smack them upside their head with a baseball bat. Goddamn-it.. if if is black, call it black. Robots Daily Show link highlights what I mean. Seriously.... 'She has foreign policy experience, Alaska is the closest state to Russia.' Why Canada never got into that explaination is laughable.
Then there was her speech where she is saying a pipeline is 'God's will". F McCain for picking such a poor VP canidate.
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Wow. We've had 8 years of Bush. Please tell me there's no way McCain could win and we end up with Palin as president. We might as well have Paris Hilton on the ticket! (I understand Gibson's questions better than Palin... and I sell funny books for a living!)
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It's clear that Palin lacks the capability to govern this country. I think McCain would be able to muddle through but Palin would be catastrophic. I think as the race goes on, people will realize that and she will lose her charm.
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I sure hope you're right, Bone. But we had four years of W and he got voted back in.
She's like a deer caught in the headlights. With lipstick. :)
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I need to post my latest letter from the CA Republican Party. It is sure to insipre a serious Ross Rant (TM) should he pull up his mam-pers and return to site!
I read some of it to Robot and Jack. I was laughing my ass of and I am a Republican. Needless to day, I won't be making my contributing this year because I found it highly annoying. It also disgust me how much money is wasted campaigning.
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Post away Mr. McManus.
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Is that a Usual Suspects reference or am I confused?
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That's right - Kill away Mr. McManus was the original line from the lawyer Kobayashi. But yes, since you are a Republican, you are confused.
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So you don't want to cross party lines? Oh well, we will always have thread 302....
Now Bone, while I am a registered Republican, I think I deserve some credit. First off, I watched the entire DNC. Even Bill Clinton who makes my skin crawl because he disgust me as a person.
I am completely disgusted with the way the Republicans are running this election, and more appalled at McCain's choice of a VP. At his age, there is a good chance he will not survive the presidency and I do not believe Palin is qualified to do so. I also think it are alot of other Republicans who clearly deserved the nomination more and have spent their career earning it.
I am actually leaning towards Obama and Biden. Obama seems to be in touch with the middle class and focused on education. He seems to be more for small business and less for big business. Having young children, I want someone who cares about their future, and is going to do everything to make it better. Our country is in trouble. To me, this election is not about what party you belong to, but what you want for the future of this country.
Obama made a comment that stuck with me during his speech. He said he would not be here today if it were not for education. That said a lot to me.
Anyhow, my scanner is not working with my wireless network. I will have to get an IT consult from Robot. Worse case, if I can't get it scanned, I will fax it to Zilla's store and he can post it.
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First off,
1. Fatty let me be the first to offer you your first taste of a sweet American
MONSTER BURGER on me when you get into town (or steak or whatever is on the
menu you would care to try), on me at the new steakhouse I work for. The food
is great and truly American.
2. Mac book Pro all the way, I have had numerous laptops as well and
advertising the hell out of your goods means nothing (DELL especially), I've
never met anyone who didn't love there Mac. PC users get scared of change and
think they have to have Windows, that’s BS.
3. THE GOOD STUFF--- Fuck Palin and her ridiculous Republican party. If you
are republican I hope to whatever greater power, whether it is a god, an act of
science, or whatever you believe, that you are just a bit smarter than her. Their
views are so distorted from what the average American middle class and/or lower
class actually does in there "REAL" lives that it makes me sick.
4. The current government wants to bail out the big banks to keep them
going, fuck the people losing their homes and all they have due to the banks.
Put up a fence to keep out the border jumpers from Mexico, well give Bush a
damn toilet brush and $7.50 an hr and he can have the job of cleaning public
bathrooms, or maybe $8.00 and McCain can be my next dishwasher if his old ass
can move fast enough.
5. Spend A TRILLION dollars of American hard earned money on a full bullshit
war in Iraq that has nothing to do with anything since day one. Then for
the next 5 years try to keep the American people in a scared state that you use
to rationalize the lives lost, money spent, and whatever they want to tell you
as a republican to make you thinks it’s all ok.
If this offends anyone I'm sorry but at what point in your life did you give
up the entire free-thinking and independent way of life. At what point did you
become a full fledged fucking puppet. No matter if you are a Democrat or a
Republican at some point you have to wake up and wonder just what the hell is
going on. How is it my 6 yr old son makes more damn sense than the parties
today. Don't answer..... It’s simple, because at age 6 he has what is lost to
most people today........yes that would be genuine common fucking sense.
I know I don't post on here often so I'm sorry about the rant (where the
hell is Ross again) but I'm so tired of the political bullshit, and not a peep
Bunky cuz I doubt you want to clean toilets and/or dishes for $8.00 an hr. Most
Republicans and Democrats believe what they do because their parents,
grandparents, great grandparents and so on were the same. Forget what they
taught you and think for yourself just once. That’s right cut the strings;
independence and free thinking are kind of nice.
I
am an indepent and I do believe that shit needs to change in this
country, we have strayed off what this nation was built on and what
its supposed to stand for. Yet our future lies in the hands of people
that don't know how many homes they own or know what current policy
even is. Both of my grandfathers were in the war, they fought for what
we have today and I believe that they would be ashamed to see what has
happened to the country they fought for so long ago if they were
here.The people of their time fought for what they believed in , not
for what people told them to believe in.
Fatty, when you get to town I will make sure you have ample resources to
have your American dinner. I might even throw something in for Zilla if you
want to make it a dinner party (that would make him all happy inside).
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My Grandfather fought in WWII as well Edge. I agree with you, if he were alive today, I believe he would feel the same way.
Yes, I am a registered Republican. However, I would be a Republican that falls more in line with that of Reagan, and not the current mess of an administration.
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Have any of you seen Bill O'Reilly's interview of Obama? I thought Obama had a very good grasp of the current state of military affairs as well as diplomacy.
I must say, I feel somewhat alienated from most Americans to be honest. Our soft, consumer lifestyles is at odds with the nobility of the Spartan lifestyle. Our pursuit of wealth is, to a degree, ignoble. There should be a merit based approach to class structure in my opinion. Those who serve the country should be granted some form of aristocratic statues. JFK had the idea when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you...". Corporate America and the military/industrial complex is designed with the singular goal of wealth accumulation. It's disgusting.
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I saw the Obama interview. I think he did a great job, especially since O'Reilly is an asshole and always cuts people off when they are speaking.
I don't know about a class structure, but I definetely think we screw those who serve our country. I call on the VA's in Central CA, and outside of the Sacramento VA, I am disgusted by the level of care these guys are getting. A person who lives off the system and doesn't do shit gets better care under Medi-Cal than those who serve. Don't even get me started unless you want a Ross Rant (TM).
Speaking of Ross, has anyone talked to him? I was wondering if BofA's purchase of Merrill Lynch was going to impact his job in any way.
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Oh snap! The market is all farmed up today. I wish I had more gold and shotguns.
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The pursuit of wealth is one of the biggest problems with this country and one of the biggest contributers to the stress level and depression of people in society. As soon as we catch that elusive goal we were striving for, we're on to the next one. We never allow ourselves a chance to enjoy the moment.
I think we should all look into the teachings of The Buddha. Not as a religion but as a way to approach life. We need to stop putting SO MUCH emphasis on material things. This isn't to say we shouldn't try to succeed. I see nothing wrong with trying to make sure you're chidren are taken care of.
As for politics???
FUCK POLITICS AND FUCK POLITICIANS.
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Well it's complicated. As a nation we require leaders and the rule of law. Without, the weak, out of shape folks that sit around and play video games all day would be killed, raped, and pillaged. Whenever you jockey for position as a leader there is a struggle and compromises have to be made in order to make it out on top.
Corporations have successfully managed to shape our society into a competitive consumer environment. We pursue wealth in order to buy things we believe will make our lives better. Advertising plays an immense role in this. I've noticed that without exposure to TV, I've bought less things over the past year and a half. Whether we admit it or not, we are influenced by advertising.
Rather than pursue material success, we should pursue knowledge and physical readiness. This is a noble pursuit which will improve our lives and give real satisfaction. Not the fleeting satisfaction of a new Rolex.
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The Bone said:
I must say, I feel somewhat alienated from most Americans to be honest. Our soft, consumer lifestyles is at odds with the nobility of the Spartan lifestyle. Our pursuit of wealth is, to a degree, ignoble. There should be a merit based approach to class structure in my opinion. Those who serve the country should be granted some form of aristocratic statues. JFK had the idea when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you...". Corporate America and the military/industrial complex is designed with the singular goal of wealth accumulation. It's disgusting.
To be clear, are you talking about living a Spartan lifestyle (of or pertaining to ancient Sparta), or a spartan lifestyle (wooden chairs, dirt floors, steam-powered xbox)? I want to be sure before I get out my soapbox :)
Second, you want class to be tied to national service? Because several cultures have tried that (e.g. Berlin in the 30s, Russia since the 50s, China since 4000 BC) and I don't think people generally consider those successful implementations of democracy. Besides, we have service-based classes already, isn't that right Senator? Show me any other industry where retirees get tax-free pension and healthcare.
Still, I see your point. It's the same reason you will never see a well-paid teacher; as soon as you make pay the incentive, you're going to be overrun with people who are in it for the wrong reasons.
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The Bone said:
Advertising plays an immense role in this. I've noticed that without exposure to TV, I've bought less things over the past year and a half. Whether we admit it or not, we are influenced by advertising.
This is one of the main reasons I didn't make it in advertising. I couldn't stomach shoving products down people's throats. If I were to have worked for a non-profit, like Habitat for Humanity or Big Brother Big Sister, I might have enjoyed it more.
Also, I understand what you're saying about the necessity of politicians. Because everyone isn't willing to step up and take responsibility we have to settle for power grabbing people.
I've often wondered a bit whether a government by committee would work. Somewhat like your approach of everyone serving. Everyone would be required to have their time on the "council" and help make decisions. And term limits for senate and congress.
Oops. I think my socialism is showing.
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Bone, I think you might be stereotyping people who own 360 consoles. Robot, Jack, and myself don't usually play during the day. We tend to hop on after bedtime.
I actually limit the amount of time my son plays video games.
My kids are quite busy during the week. My daughter is in dance 4 days a week, on student council, and in choir, and my son plays baseball, takes guitar lessons, and is taking karate lessons. In addition to working full-time, my daylight hours are quite busy. They are only 9 and 6, so I imagine it is not going to slow down from here.
Patrick is not a fan of the video games.
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RobotSpider said:
The Bone said:
I must say, I feel somewhat alienated from most Americans to be honest. Our soft, consumer lifestyles is at odds with the nobility of the Spartan lifestyle. Our pursuit of wealth is, to a degree, ignoble. There should be a merit based approach to class structure in my opinion. Those who serve the country should be granted some form of aristocratic statues. JFK had the idea when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you...". Corporate America and the military/industrial complex is designed with the singular goal of wealth accumulation. It's disgusting.
To be clear, are you talking about living a Spartan lifestyle (of or pertaining to ancient Sparta), or a spartan lifestyle (wooden chairs, dirt floors, steam-powered xbox)? I want to be sure before I get out my soapbox :)
Second, you want class to be tied to national service? Because several cultures have tried that (e.g. Berlin in the 30s, Russia since the 50s, China since 4000 BC) and I don't think people generally consider those successful implementations of democracy. Besides, we have service-based classes already, isn't that right Senator? Show me any other industry where retirees get tax-free pension and healthcare.
Still, I see your point. It's the same reason you will never see a well-paid teacher; as soon as you make pay the incentive, you're going to be overrun with people who are in it for the wrong reasons.
To be honest my comments were more thinking aloud and not exactly a realistic approach to modern society. My point really was that we glamorize the merchant class. Selling stuff for wild profit will get you on the cover of Forbes and in Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous. The rest of America sees them rolling in their Bentley's and lounging in their MTV crib. America (and most of the world) think thats the goal. They can't afford the Bentley but they overextend themselves buying BMWs and giant flat screen TVs. Do we really need these things? Why are entertainers exalted? In the past you had bards, poets, minstrels, court jesters. They weren't seen as the pinnacle of human achievers. Why do we feel that way today? It's because of TV advertising. People want to be entertained and they want to escape from their dreary lives. They are enamored with celebrities and their consumer lifestyles fuel the ads which make corporations richer and in turn use advertising in conjunction with entertainment industry.
The people who should be exalted are teachers, doctors, farmers (legit farmers, not corporation farms), firemen, police, military, and even politicians. These people provide a legitimate service to the community but don't generate revenue for corporations so they don't get the love.
I will say certain themes in Fight Club resonate with me as well as the writings of Daniel Quinn.
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First off - Edge... thats how you come out - big cock in hand, swinging it like you are Hungarian. Plus, right off the bat - offering up tasty beef to the Fatty. I happily accept your invite and will come to your new place. I'll even bring my sister-in-law for some eye candy.
Robot - please note... Edge offered up his very strong opinion. Hell ya - I don't like waffles, give me the frickin pancake!! (yes that makes no sense what-so-ever... but I like it.)
Its true - you bunch are sounding like a bunch of tight-pants, red-shoe-wearing socialists. Its about time.
The ultrarich have bought the media and then politicians. They put the two together and have control over the masses. The media used to be a watchdog for Americans. Journalists, full of integrity. Now, news reporters are just loud, obnoxious puppets promoting their bosses agenda.
This is a crazy day in the Market. 3 giants have fallen in the past few months. Only a few big banks are left. This changes everything. In the next few years, these leftovers will make even more money than ever before. They could dwarf big oil in profits.
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Bone, I do agree about people over extending themselves, and measuring their success by what they can buy. My neighborhood is a perfect example of that.
We have had several foreclosures, and I called it before it happened.
I was one of the first houses to built on my street before the big housing boom and inflated house prices. I put 25% down on my house. Even with the crappy market, I still owe $200k less than my house is worth. I guess I am one of the lucky ones.
Anyhow, we watched all these people our age move in and buy houses when they were going for alot more than we paid. In addition to having atleast a $3000/month mortgage (which in my opinion is ridiculous) they had a garage full of toys, drove the newest BMW/Mercedes, and so forth.
It was interesting because I was doing the math in my head and trying to figure out how people with the jobs that had could afford the excessive lifestyle. They had to be living on credit. Well needless to say, the bank owns their homes now. I can see why these banks are in trouble, they gave out too many loans to people who shouldn't have them.
I live by the rule to not to have more debt than I can afford to pay if something should happen to my husband. Yeah, it may be morbid, but if something should happen to one of us, I don't want the other one to trapped in debt trying to survive. I won't take a trip unless I can pay cash for it. If it has to go on a credit card than I can't afford it.
I don't watch alot of TV. But I agree the wrong message is being relayed to today's youth. First off, as a whole, they are a very lazy generation who wants everything handed to them. People are being judged by their material items, and not by their acheivements.
Paris Hilton is the best example of wasted resource. She is famous for being a whore, she has zero talent, and was too stupid to even get a high school diploma. She hasn't done anything in my opinion to earn celebrity status, and worse than that, has done nothing productive with her celebrity status.
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BY ROGER EBERT Sun-Times Movie Critic
I think I might be able to explain some of Sarah Palin's appeal.
She's the "American Idol" candidate. Consider. What defines an
"American Idol" finalist? They're good-looking, work well on
television, have a sunny personality, are fierce competitors, and so
talented, why, they're darned near the real thing. There's a reason
"American Idol" gets such high ratings. People identify with the
contestants. They think, Hey, that could be me up there on that show!
My problem is, I don't want to be up there. I don't want a vice
president who is darned near good enough. I want a vice president who
is better, wiser, well-traveled, has met world leaders, who three
months ago had an opinion on Iraq. Someone who doesn't repeat bald-
faced lies about earmarks and the Bridge to Nowhere. Someone who
doesn't appoint Alaskan politicians to "study" global warming, because,
hello! It has been studied. The returns are convincing enough that John
McCain and Barack Obama are darned near in agreement.
I would also want someone who didn't make a teeny little sneer when
referring to "people who go to the Ivy League." When I was a teen I
dreamed of going to Harvard, but my dad, an electrician, told me, "Boy,
we don't have the money. Thank your lucky stars you were born in Urbana
and can go to the University of Illinois right here in town." So I did,
very happily. Although Palin gets laughs when she mentions the "elite"
Ivy League, she sure did attend the heck out of college.
Five different schools in six years. What was that about?
And how can a politician her age have never have gone to Europe? My
dad had died, my mom was working as a book-keeper and I had a job at
the local newspaper when, at 19, I scraped together $240 for a charter
flight to Europe. I had Arthur Frommer's $5 a Day under my arm, started
in London, even rented a Vespa and drove in the traffic of Rome. A few
years later, I was able to send my mom, along with the $15 a Day book.
You don't need to be a pointy-headed elitist to travel abroad. You
need curiosity and a hunger to see the world. What kind of a person
(who has the money) arrives at the age of 44 and has only been out of
the country once, on an official tour to Iraq? Sarah Palin's travel
record is that of a provincial, not someone who is equipped to deal
with global issues.
But some people like that. She's never traveled to Europe, Asia,
Africa, South America or Down Under? That makes her like them. She
didn't go to Harvard? Good for her! There a lot of hockey moms who
haven't seen London, but most of them would probably love to, if they
had the dough. And they'd be proud if one of their kids won a
scholarship to Harvard.
I trust the American people will see through Palin, and save the
Republic in November. The most damning indictment against her is that
she considered herself a good choice to be a heartbeat away. That shows
bad judgment.
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Michigan is a key state. Could go either way. Better make sure you vote. I'm registered in FL so I don't have to go through the rigamorole of an absentee ballot this time.
Fatty - boycott all beef that is not grass fed. Corn fed industrial steers may taste good all cooked up but it fucks up the environment, unethical to the cows, and probably isn't all that great for you to be eating beef full of hormones.
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Hmmmm.... I believe I will start with some Wild West Shrimp, Firecracker Chicken Wraps, and some Boneless Buffalo Wings. For an entree.... Hmmmm, what do you recommend? I am considering the rib-eye, but Flo's Filet has caught my eye. Of course cook it medium rare. Yes, I will have the Ceasar salad with that, plus a side of sauteed muchrooms and onions. Dessert?? Oh, no... I couldn't. I am on a diet you know... got to watch what I eat.
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And Bone.... at this point, I will go after any beef I can. Corn-fed, grass-fed, or twinkie-fed.
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Fatty, medium rare is the only way to go! Bone, compassionate towards cows and the environment too? OMG! Maybe he should run for President and clean shit up!
My Dad was diagnosed with cancer this year (and cured, thankfully). After everything was said and done, his Gastroenterologist told him to avoid red meat. There is a link between long term consumption of red meat (and processed meats) with colon cancer.
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I have my own moral code. I think the way cows are mistreated in the industrial processing machine is repugnant and I make a conscious effort not to support it. My record isn't perfect but when available, I'll always buy grass fed, sustainable animals despite the increased cost. With that said, I have no problem killing animals for food, I just don't think we need to fatten them up on corn, making them sick, have them wallow in their own muddy shit which gets into the fur and your e.coli burger.
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I understand. I won't eat veal, or even try it, just for the same reason.
I think it is terrible ow they treat their animals. Patrick's Mom raises her own beef just for that reason, and to eliminate the hormones.
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Maybe you could give a hand and help me raise my own beef, Bunkz. I am sure you would be great at it!
I too am exhausted by the republicans. They seem like they can walk around with impunity, do and say whatever they want. I would like to see the people's government take back this country and send a message. Round up the republican leadership and jail them for treason. It still baffles me that Clinton can almost be impeached for at Blowski, yet gross incompetence causing the deaths of thousands and costing the nation a cool trillion is OTAY! Blantanly breaking the law behind the executive office... anyone, anyone??? We all see it. How come the nation cannot talk about the elephant in the room?
China has a great policy for this type of BS - death. I am not even joking to suggestions that Bush and his cronies actions warrant arrest, trial and this punishment.
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BigFatty said:
Maybe you could give a hand and help me raise my own beef, Bunkz. I am sure you would be great at it!
She'd be great at it. She's already helped raise my pork :)
Out of character for me, but I couldn't resist.
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Oh my....
Anyhow, I have been looking at Obama's tax plan, and it won't be good for me. I am also not thrilled about increased spending to create jobs, and concerned about the tax burden he will put on small business.
Now before you jump my ass, I am not saying McCain is the answer. I am hoping there is a third option I have just missed because we are f'd!
Anyhow, it is not just the Republicans fault. The Democratics have control of Congress. Yes, Bush has f'd up a lot of a shit, but so have the Democrats. I am sick of the party blame bullshit and just want someone to fix it!
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Bunky - you must make over $250,000? Looks like your going have to cut down on jetskis and big bullet shaped inner tubes. How will you get by?
Actually, I'm no economic genius buy is there a reason why a flat tax rate won't work?
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RobotSpider said:
Is it just me, or does Palin sound a lot like Edie McClurg?
I think I heard her call McCain a "righteous dude."
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F off Zilla! That must have been lyrics to some Rock Band 2 song you heard!
I am all for a flat tax. I think everyone should contribute equally. I think it is bullshit that I can't claim the child tax credit, because my kids are not free to raise because on paper I am in a higher income bracket. I pay out the ass all year, excess Social Security which I will never see, and again at the end of the year.
I can't write off the interest to my husband's student loans, because the cap is at $110,000/year. That is complete bullshit since our monthly payment for my husband's pharmacy loans is almost as much as my mortgage.
What married couple with college degrees make less than that a year? $110,000/year is not a lot of money with the cost of everything today.
I think economic stimulus package that went out was bullshit. I think Bush just bought a lot of crack and beer, because it didn't go to the people who would use it to boost the economy.
I think it is a scam that celebrities can create bogus charities and donate to it, and then never disperse funds and get a tax break.
The middle class is fucked. We support the system, but never make enough to get ahead because we are paying for all this bullshit.
Obama's plan will affect those under the $250,000 mark as well. Do I think McCain is the answer? No.
Bone, no offense, but raising a family is not cheap. $250,000 for Michigan is probably good money, but with the cost of living in California, it is not. It is similiar to what you experience in Hawaii. A decent house cost $300,000 - 400,000 and that ain't cheap!
I don't have a lot of debt, but I don't have a lot of excess cash laying around either.
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Here we go again.................
http://www.longhornsteakhouse.com/
Fatty, use this address to check out the good site for the biz. I would go with the ribeye, especially since we cut them ourselves fresh daily. If you are watching your waistline still, by all means go for the 7oz filet. Or be a man and go for the 16oz prime rib or maybe the 22oz porterhouse. Chicken is chicken but steak is a whole different world.
Next I agree that Dems and Repub have both caused a lot of problems. Here is the bottom line and how it will always be because thats how the system F's us in the A.
IF YOUR POOR, EVERYTHING IS FREE IN THE SYSTEM.
IF YOUR RICH IT DOES'T MATTER , CUZ YOUR RICH.
IF YOUR MIDDLECLASS, YOU PAY FOR EVERY FUCKING THING
I'm with the Bone, a flat tax all the way across the board would be fine for me. That way everyones percentage is the same and and there is no "NEW" tax bracket to have to worry about. I know Bunky will hate this but when was the last good economy when there was a republican in the office. Oh wait I don't remember one. Say what you will but the numbers don't lie, when Slick Willy was in office the economy was good, unemployment was low and weren't sending our people to die in some sandtrap. You can say that he was riding off the other Bush coat-tails but you can only use that excuse for the first couple years the rest of his term was all on him. Now before you sday that Bush II had to clean up after Clinton, once again you can use that for the excuse for the first two years or so after that, well he just straight up fucked us all.
The only thing Clinton did wrong in my eyes was not picking a hotter intern to play Slapstick with and moisten his cigars.
Lastly he may have lied to the World about the situation with the fat chick, and help me with this Bunky, how many people died because of that ??
Can someone help me with the this one as well, how many people have died because ons crazy texan said there were WMD's in Iraq??? Here are the numbers for you:
There have been 4,471 coalition deaths -- 4,157 Americans, two
Australians, one Azerbaijani, 176 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, one Czech,
seven Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, five Georgians, one
Hungarian, 33 Italians, one Kazakh, one Korean, three Latvians, 22
Poles, three Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards,
two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of September 15,
2008.
Lets not forget Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) 4019 deaths have occurred. Once again stop thinking about the party and thin about being a human being and lets not forget the 1,267,401 Iraqi civilians.
Just some numbers to give some thought to.
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I paid $550,000 for my crib and lower taxes would be nice but that's the price of having the govt take care of your roads and shit. I'd rather they be a little smarter about it than worry about lowering or raising taxes. Our defense spending far out outstrips the next closest nation. Maybe we shouldn't go off half cocked into war unless it really is necessary for our national security. Isn't it about time we focus on ourselves and direct threats? Trickle down economics are bullshit. Saving money, reducing both the national debt and trade deficit will make the country stronger economically.
What married couple with college degrees make less than $250,000? Well according to the 2005 census bureau, about 98.5 percent of U.S. households make less than $250,000. Of course it doesn't take into account college degrees but that's irrelevant imo. Now I'm not saying it's fair to make those 1.5 percent pay a higher percentage but it's not going to keep me awake at night like the situation with honeybees does.
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EDGE said:
I know Bunky will hate this but when was the last good economy when there was a republican in the office. Oh wait I don't remember one.
A friend of mine (a very conservative friend) and I argue about this all the time. He insists that the economic success of Clinton's administration is due to the policies put in place by George H. W. Bush. Likewise, the economic problems of this administration are the result of Clinton's policies.
That's like having a toilet that flushes shit, and then backs up with gold bricks.
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Bunky said:
What married couple with college degrees make less than that a year? $110,000/year is not a lot of money with the cost of everything today.
/raises_hand
Not only do I have a college degree, but I've got a decent job. My wife has a master's degree AND has to maintain her teaching certificate with college credits every few years AND she has to pay out-of-pocket for any paper above and beyond the 1 case per semester she is allotted. Oh, there's a "tax-credit" that allows her to take a $250 'related-expenses' credit, which would be great if we weren't spending $1000/year on pencil sharpeners (kids burn through at least 1 $75 'industrial' sharpener per year), paper, bulletin board crap, colored paper, borders, overheads, etc.
Together, we don't make near $250,000/year. I'm going to forgive the short-sightedness of the original comment, because I think costs in California are skewing your perspective. But keep in mind that when they make economic policies, there are 48 other states (sorry Bone, Hawaii is just as skewed, but for obvious reasons) out there where income is measured in the tens of thousands, rather than the quarters-of-a-million.
I'm not defending it, but they have to give hard numbers so the general public can understand it, and so FOX NEWS doesn't have to take off their socks and horn-covers to count in percentages and averages.
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$250K?!? Holy shit. I don't think I've made that amount in my entire life. I have a college degree and a decent job. I'm not flipping burgers.
I think my wife and I make around $40k to $50k per year, if that. We don't get ANYTHING free from the system. Here's the truth. There really is no "middle" class anymore. Here are the classes now:
Dead
Really, Really Poor
Really Poor
Poor
Trying Not to Drown in Debt
Barely Getting By
- and -
Bunky and Bone
Rich
Richer
Disgustingly Rich
Bill Gates
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What's with the F ZILLA, Bunky? You don't know a Ferris Bueller reference when you see one?
As for the $110K comment: Someone's a bit out of touch methinks...
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The Bone said:
but it's not going to keep me awake at night like the situation with honeybees does.
Dude - that is no joke. That situation has peaked my interest for some time after reading about it somewhere. You think the oil crisis is bad? Shit, what happens if the bees die off. We are in for some bad times. The business to 'bee' in is bees.... if you can figure out what the deal is.
Flat tax has all the answers.... except it makes most of the beancounters redundant. I am all for it. It is a huge waste of resources having something so complicated. Fair is fair - everyone pays and everyone pays the same percentage. No tax breaks for nobody. Too many lobbists - god damn them.
JA makes the world seem like a fucked up place. I might move to India and live on the beach awaiting the next tsunami. It would be a happier life.
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RobotSpider said:
EDGE said:
I know Bunky will hate this but when was the last good economy when there was a republican in the office. Oh wait I don't remember one.
A friend of mine (a very conservative friend) and I argue about this all the time. He insists that the economic success of Clinton's administration is due to the policies put in place by George H. W. Bush. Likewise, the economic problems of this administration are the result of Clinton's policies.
That's like having a toilet that flushes shit, and then backs up with gold bricks.
My Republican associates bring this up to me all the time. It's absurd.
By the way, has anyone else noticed that McCain has very robotic arm movements?
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Megan and I think that his entire backbone is fused together.
HOLY REVALATIONS, BATMAN!!
McCain is an android puppet put in place to allow Cheney access to the government after he's out of office. Palin is the hot VPILF put in place to distract us from finding out McCain is an android puppet.
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Sorry Zilla.
I am not confirming nor denying my income, but based on Obama's proposed plan, it which have a severe impact on CA middle class residents who are already getting screwed at the state level and have to pay for all the free loaders in the state.
Robot, teacher's out in CA get alot of tax breaks on state taxes. My sister and brother in-law both have master's degree and teach AP math kids in high school and are close to that tax bracket.
If we were to move out of state ( I am not opposed to that, only the bulk of our family lives here), I am certain our income would go down, but I probably wouldn't have a $500 PG&E bill in summer either.
We have the most expensive gas in the nation, the highest minimum wage (over $8, over $9 in San Francisco), utilities, etc. I believe we are the most expensive state to live in (NY may be #1) and have 5 of the most expensive housing areas in the nation in CA.
I am all for paying taxes. My kids go to public schools, we camp, we go to the park and ride the bike trails. That is not free.
A flat tax is the only way to go. You cannot factor in all of the variables when trying to do a unified tax plan, because all state are different in terms of cost of living, wages, etc.
$110k is not a lot of money based on my experience in California. Not when a house in the ghetto on a 6,000 sq/ft. lot cost over $200k, even with the housing slump. You can't even buy a condo for that in the LA area.
Pharmacy school runs about $50k/year for tuition plus housing. CA has one school that is accelerated and you are done in 3 years (after earning a BS), or 4 if you go a normal program. My husband spent 7 years in school to earn his PharmD.
There better be some return on investment for a $150k education (not including undergraduate work). Most pharmacists, doctors, ect. have hefty loans to pay back the first 10 years, and carry a huge liability on their license.
You have to pay the state to renew your license and maintain continuing education units to reapply for your license. None of this is reimbursed and there is no tax break.
Like Med school, there better be a return on investment, otherwise people would not shell out $200k on an education to make $50k a year. I don't think itis unreasonable to be able to write off the interest on the loans, especially since it is an underserved occupation and a necessity to the medical field.
If you deduct our annual student loan payments, mortgage, and taxes, my income is not so sweet. Not by CA standards anyway.
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You spent $150K to learn how to peddle legal drugs to people who should be either eat whole foods instead or die of their ailments as nature intended it. Just kidding. I don't really mean that.
Anyways. Flat tax is the way to go, combined with better spending practices of said tax revenue.
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Bone, I am not a complete fucking retard. Only partial 
No, my parents paid for my undergrad. At the time, it was probably $5k total because I went to state school.
That's what it cost for Patrick's Doctorate of Pharmacy degree. USC would have been $50k more because they are not a year round program, so it adds an extra year. You can't really get around the cost because it is required by law if you want take take the State Boards for your pharmacist license.
I don't peddle drugs. I have an injectable medication that without, patients will eventually end up dying a slow, painful death from liver cancer. If a patient responds to my medication, it will save their life. I only deal with specialists.
I am picky about what drugs I peddle. I hate the pharma industry, but love the small company I work for. They are very pro patient. Anyhow, a good portion of my time is spent helping tie patients into resources rather than peddling my drug!
Patrick's Uncle died from liver cancer in January, and I lost my only Uncle a few years back to pancreatic cancer with secondary liver cancer. It was heartbreaking to watch them die. That was a big factor in me leaving my job at a specialty pharmacy, which I had been at for 10 years, to cross over into the biotech world.
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Edge, to answer your question:
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In fairness to the above arguement, I did do some salary research using my husband's current position, as well as look at housing, cost of living, etc. Robot had a good point that my viewpoint is skewed because I live in CA, so I thought I should investigate and not make assumptions.
For the same job in Grand Rapids, the average salary is approx. $55,000/year less than what you expect in CA. As far as housing goes, I could get a lot more property and pay about $350,000 less for a house in Michigan. So basically, I am f'd living in CA, getting screwed by state and federal taxes, and my middle class lifestyle is more stressful out here and I need to move!
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Hope you like shoveling snow.
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Now the Fed is bailing out AIG with an $85 billion loan. Fuck them, Freddie Mac, and Fanny May. This is capitalism baby. Let the free market work on it's own. Our economy will get fucked but all we are doing here is fixing the symptoms and not the underlying cause - greedy corporations accountable to nobody.
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The Bone said:
Now the Fed is bailing out AIG with an $85 billion loan. Fuck them, Freddie Mac, and Fanny May. This is capitalism baby. Let the free market work on it's own. Our economy will get fucked but all we are doing here is fixing the symptoms and not the underlying cause - greedy corporations accountable to nobody.
Next up is the Detroit automakers! I'm just hoping some of this
free "US Taxpayer/Loans from China" money trickles down to comic book shops! It's only fair!
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I am with you Bone! F those guys. I hope they are bailing them out with Michigan dollars and not California dollars or we are really fucked!
On a more exciting note, it appears we may get a Ross Rant (TM) this weekend! I am keeping my fingers crossed for a couple!
I am interested to hear his take on the banks and bailouts, as well as the cost of living and salaries in his area.
I don't think Chicago employees get paid in Pesos.
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This is something that we can all agree on. Fuck them and there poor business plans/strategies. These companies made shitty choices, so let them fuckers fall.The only people that will get fucked is us the taxpayer, whether you are paid in California dollars or Michigan dollars. There is no free market anymore, just one controlled by the feds to keep that big ass band-aid from coming off. I say rip that damn band-aid off and let the market go buck- ass- wild (not like you in your college days though Bunky).
I almost forgot, Bunky................if the president couldn't remember that he was in office then he is null/void of any real changes made.Especially if it was probably his wife, advisor, the gardner.....or whoever that kept reminding him of who he was that kept him going.
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Edge, obviously the Pesos Payout has jaded you. Reagan was F'ing sweet! You and Ollie North may be the only two people who don't think so!
The economy would not look like this under Reagan. He created jobs, helped small business.... He was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in 1994. He had been out of office for awhile!I am sure even in the worst of his Alzheimer, he was still more competent than Bush!
Back to the banking issue. It appears Lehman's debt is going to be bought out for $2 billion by a British Firm. The best part is Barclays is buying a stripped-clean version of Lehman's North American business. They are purchasing the employees, franchise, brand name, technology and clients but won't include the risky trades and liabilities which is the reason why they filed Chapter 11. WTF?
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http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1799203760
In 2 minutes he makes more of a point than McCain has in 10 years. Granted everyone tells us what they want to hear to get them into office but at least the man can speak and at least sound like he knows what hes talking about.
Shit, someone neeeds to start a new thread. We have all gone way to political.
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I also think in addition to a flat income tax, we should have a national consumer tax. That way you can have a degree of control over how much you want to give the government. If you feel the need to buy a $55,000 Escalade, the government gets some love. If you live an ecologically responsible, minimal consumer lifetstyle, you pay a lot less.
Anyways, all these problems are peanuts compared to the biggest problem ever. Overpopulation! That's right assholes, there are limited resources for food, water, shelter, etc. Some figures I've read say we can manage a total human population of 7 billion. At the current rate, we will eclipse that shortly and famine, plague, and war will break out of biblical proportion. Again, better have your stockpile of gold and shotguns. I'm planning to capitalize on it and become a warlord. As a betting man I'm putting out that it society will be fubared by 2030 unless dramatic changes are made.
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I saw somebody peeking!!!!!! We might get a visitor soon.......
Who is this 'New Bone'? All earth-huggy, naturalistic, semi-nudist. You must not be working so much in Florida. There is far too much Bonesearch being compiled - honeybees, grass-fed beef, overpopulation.... what are you doing, re-reading 'I am Ishmael'? You are WAY too current on current events and are even branching out into future events.
So the opportunity may be shotguns and gold..... but I don't think so. There is far too much space on the globe. Agraculture and energy is where to go next for some bucks. Figure out how to farm on the oceans, or even the desert, and you can make millions. Maybe bugs are the new food... the new crop. They are much more ecologically/ nutritionally efficient.. or so I have read.
But, I will admit that in a realistic competition, shotguns beats cash every time. You stockpile shotguns, I stockpile cash from ocean-based bug farms, and shotguns take cash every time.
Robot - When I am in GR, I think we should get together and have some concept talks.... I think we both could spark some ideas in each other. At least it will give us a chance to wear our pink belts.
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Yeah I have tons of time on my hands to bring myself up to speed on the problems we face.
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Bone needs to get his frook on, I sense some underlying tension that needs to be worked out!
There used to be a luxury tax on higher priced vehicles that was phased out.
I pay the county tax collector each year personal property tax on my boat ($400). Which is fine, I am not complaining.
The state goverment is getting some love everytime you buy a vehicle in the form of sales tax. It is a flat tax, so you are charged the same percentage no matter how much your car cost at the dealer. If you buy an Escalade, you will pay more.
I don't think owning an Escalade makes you anti-environment or a glutton in terms of consumer products. It is also an domestic product that helps our economy and production creates American jobs.
What about a consumption tax on food Bone? Everyone buys groceries, so everyone would be contributing.
On a sad note, some fuck bag(s) broke into our RV. I spent the afternoon with the po-po. Before you ream me for my excessive consumer lifestyle Bone, my parents bought it for us. Anyhow, I asked the police officer if I could beat the shit out of them if they caught them.
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An Escalade is the perfect example of what's wrong with American philosophy. There is almost no utilitarian reason to own this vehicle. It's not very good at off roading, it sucks at hauling pax and cargo compared to a minivan or truck, it costs a small fortune, and it consumes gas at an absurd rate. However it is luxurious and prestigious. It's all about look at me, I can afford to spend excess cash on this sweet ride. It's a selfish fucking vehicle. Buy a fucking Hyundai (they have a factory in Alabama which helps our economy and jobs) and donate to the balance to your local school district if you aren't selfish, but that's not the American way. It's all about me, me, me and the shit I have is better than you. This isn't a direct criticism of you Bunky because we are all guilty. I love Rolex and BMWs. I'm trying to shift my mindset to consuming less. Buying one thing of exceptional quality that won't need to be replaced for a long time and hanging on to it.
Fatty really doesn't grasp the overwhelming and cataclysmic effects of overpopulation and over consumption. Right now, the Earth provide 1.89 acres f bioavailable earth for every human. Our growth is exponential but the resources are finite. Even if you farm the oceans with an exponential growth, we are fucked. And that doesn't include all the other shit we consume to support civilization.
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The answer, folks? Soilent Green.
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I only eat certified organic humans.
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The Bone said:
I only eat certified organic humans.
I guess that means we can only tell you to suck your own dick.
Hmmmm, if I don't grasp the effects of overpopulation, why to I think that alternative farming measures are the next big technology boom to make some ca$h?
Sure, successful measures will allow even more people to live together. The other option is mass-exterminations. Which seem to happen naturally in overpopulated species. The problem will take care of it self. Just hope you life far away from major cities. Sell your frookin house, Bone, and buy that sweet boat to live on. It will limit the amount of space you have so you will be less likely to buy shit. Just remember to listen for foghorns when you anchor your boat at night. (Longtime Fatty and Bone joke)
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I'm going to be Kevin Costner in Waterworld, drinking my own piss all day. Sweet.
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NickNick said:
The answer, folks? Soilent Green.
As long as it's not soylant cowpies.
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Nope. We'll use the cowpies for building material.
Another solution that came to mind was put forth by an old episode of Sliders. We shall have Automatic ATM machines that spit out free loot. In doing so you put your name into a lottery. Upon completion of the lottery, a certain number of people are then euthanized to help regulate our population.
That way we get rid of the greedy people as well.
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Oh, what is a Bunky to do with the Bone? I will try and coddle you for now, I know it must be mentally taxing for a single to move from a $500k glass frooking pad in Hawaii to and eco-friendly tree house.
I bet the 22 years olds are waiting in line to f you in the back of your Hyundai assembled in Alabama!
So can I assume you will be forgoing the $50 boardshorts you surf in, the $200 sunglasses, and the $50 Reef flip flops and all the expensive surfing and paddle surf gear you own? I can't wait to see Bone in a redneck t-shirt, mesh shorts, and thongs from Wal-Mart! Post a pic please.
Sexy Ninja, please. Those young 20-something hernie hotties aren't f'ing the Bone because you are a nice guy and the want to donate their crooch as charitable contribution. You are not a tax write off! You have the whole package: eye pleasing physique, and all the frooking bait- house, clothes, career, etc.
As for my lifestyle and purchases, I make no apologies. The wakeboarding boat, gear, and tubes were a great purchase. I have spent more quality family time on that thing than you could put a price on. I have seen my niece and nephews, friends, and brother in-law more because of it,a nd have given the memories and experiences that they would have never had.
My father drives an Escalade and good for him. He is 68 years old, still runs his business full time, and has contributed more in taxes and social security than he will ever benefit from. I would rather have my parents spend their money finally and have some fun, than die and leave it to the 5 of us. They earned it, not us.
He actually uses it for work. He takes alot of clients out, and picking up someone in a Hyundai from the airport who just flew in on their own plane probably would not cut it. That is business. Image is a big part of it and clients expect it. My mom doesn't drive much and still has her 1996 Buick that she bought used in the garage and refuse to buy a new car because she doesn't need one.
In addition, my parents donate quite a bit of money to charitable organizations, and not for the write off. They have done it for years, even when money was tight.
For years, my mom has driven in to parts of town most of you were fear, to give food to homeless people living under bridges and in parks. As young kids, she made as go to see how fortunate we were. I remember my Mom giving a man the gloves off her hands because he was cold. And no, she does not drive the Escalade when she does this.
Greed and selfishness is a choice. I was raised with philosophy that you should always help others, and I hope I pass that on to my kids. It is all perspective.
Be grateful for us middle class, Escalade driving Mo-Fo's. The military is funded with tax dollars and us bitches are paying your check each month so you can live in Hawaii!
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You don't need to try to justify your family's excessive consumer lifestyle to me. It's possible these material items make you and your father feel better about your lot in life being used by greedy, socially irresponsible corporations.
I'm no Saint either - for the record my shades cost $400. Part of my desire for expensive consumer goods is quality engineering - like my Oliver Peoples shades, BMWs, Rolex, and the $5000 wooden surfboard I'm trying to buy. I could do without any of those things and I'm working towards it because I recognize they don't help the world any, however, to a degree I can justify some of it. The surfboard will replace all my boards. It's constructed of sustainable, fast growing wood and will last several generations. The shades - I do need protection from UV rays. I could get by with cheaper ones but these are perfect for me and I've owned them for several years and plan to be my last pair ever unless I break or lose them.
I know the military is funded with tax dollars. I think we waste a lot of money on the military. Like I said before, our defense spending is ludicrous. It is a public service that is necessary but could be financed a little better.
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Who is going to be voted off the island next?????
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I love the thought of you as my public servant. Maybe you get that on your business card! It's actually kind of hernie!
Part of me is giving you shit, well, just because it is fun!
It think there needs to be a balance between working hard and playing hard. I am sure you work hard at your job, so why shouldn't you go buy a wooden surf board? If you are buying it so that the guy riding near you will drool, then you are an asshole. But if you are buying the board because you will enjoy riding it, it helps you relieve stress, and it brings you overall happiness, than why should you feel guilty about that?
Are you going to buying some shitty mountain bike without shocks, that you are going to ride hard and break? No. You are going to spend more to get a quality product that suits your riding needs.
I don't think people need to justify buying items that they enjoy. If you are not paying your bills, driving up your debt, than that is a bad choice and you are being irresponsible.
Outside of the Escalade, my parents do live pretty minimally. They have downsized their home, and generally do not spend alot. My Mom actually bought it to suprise my Dad, and it was my fault. She started looking at a newer truck (My Dad's car was 10 years old) and I pushed her to buy the Escalade.
I used his business clients as the prime reason. As for the gas, he doesn't mind spending it since the Oil Co. have been big clients of his for years.
Life is about balance. I don't begrudge people who have nicer things than me, and I don't look down on people who have no interest in toys or can't afford them.
My kids have to earn an allowance and save up for the play things that they want. I want them to understand what it takes to purchase things, and that it is best to save and pay cash.
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Oh Fatty, Bone can't be voted of the island, he lives on it! In fact, he may own it...
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On a side note, I've always thought that with intelligence and talent of certain members of JA, we could combined out forces to make a lot of money and save the world.
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Robot and Ross have the IT skills for world domination...
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I've tried to harness the power of JA in a project last year... no takers. Here is 'food' for thought.... when you were a kid, you might have made a potato battery to run a clock or a light. That is a interesting example of a renewable energy source.
Research - I need everything you got on potato power!
Marketing - Check into what we could do with this!
R&D - Make some prototypes - lets see what we can make this potato do!!!!!! What other veggies can work? Grab a beet and plug it in. Lets move people, there is money to be made.
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A fast food franchise that serves Paleo/Zone foods.
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The Bone said:
I'm no Saint either - for the record my shades cost $400. Part of my desire for expensive consumer goods is quality engineering - like my Oliver Peoples shades, BMWs, Rolex, and the $5000 wooden surfboard I'm trying to buy.
(oops, I did it again. I either need to post more often or learn to be more succinct. I get paid by the inch, right Swerb?)
Hyundai has a longer factory warranty than BMW. Doesn't that imply they will stand behind their engineering more than BMW? Besides, I say the same thing for almost everything I buy. My wife and I have backpacked (yes, real backpacking, no bathrooms and filter your own water) for years, and have a fantastic tent that cost us around $450. Whenever people find out how much it cost, they laugh and tell me theirs was only $75 from Dunhams. Well, that tent is now 10 years old and in the same condition now that it was in after the first time we used it. When my son was old enough to go camping, we needed something bigger. We borrowed a friend's Coleman 12 person tent ONCE. It rained like hell and we got soaked. So I just bought a new tent from the same company that sleeps 4. We've already slept through three weekends of turrential downpour without so much as a bead of moisture inside the tent.
That's a case where you get what you pay for, though there are obviously many. But at some point, you stop paying for quality and start paying a premium for the name. BMW may have higher standards of engineering than most car-makers, but is it really worth twice the cost of another comparable car from another company? Most of that quality you're paying for is being spent on ads that talk about how high their quality is. Ads that obviously work on you. Guess what, Bone; you're a consumer.
It's always about the quality for me. I'm not a consumer for owning an XBOX 360, but if I want to own one, Microsoft makes the best 360 money can buy :)
Finally, don't forget that your state is responsible for some of the most excessive consumerism in the world. Are there really no places in the lower 48 that would make a nice vacation? People have to fly themselves and their 4 kids to Hawaii just to 'get away'? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and I'm certainly not saying you're to blame, but it's easy to point the "I only buy what I need" gun at someone else. Oh, that reminds me, I need to buy some more bullets... and a new holster... I think Coach makes one from virgin lambskin harvested from the sacks of Andian Pygmy lambs in Brazil... Better get two...
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For the record Bone had a BMW M3 and it was a bad motherfucker. I don't think he has it anymore but I rode in it and it was fun as hell. The handling and acceleration was off the hook. It was a beautiful piece of machinery in form and function. Even so, while Hyundai is no BMW they are making better cars these days and they are a great value.
I drive a Kia Rio that gets 40 miles per gallon on the highway and my other car is a Kia Sedona minivan. We have 4 kids so the minivan is perfect (I know Bert hates minivans) for us. So I have an economy car and a usable minivan. Would I like to have a sweet sports car that's fun to drive? Hell yeah, but this works better for my family.
I live in a modest home right down the street from Zilla in the same sub-division. My wife and I love it here. It's a quiet neighborhood in the evening when the construction stops, they're building more houses right by me. Nothing too excessive about my lifestyle but we're happy with what we have. I guess that's all that matters.
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I think an excessive consumer lifestyle is living above your monthly means. Too many people out there rely on credit cards to survive, and spend their entire life paying for them. Vacation. No problem. I'll put it on the Visa.
To me, that is far worse than Bone, who has minimal financial obligations (wife, kids, etc.) dropping $5000 on a surfboard that he will use the hell out of.
Robot, I agree with you on the tent. I have sleep in a tent that as the temperature dropped and the moisture on the tent slowing started dripping on you as you slept. I still prefer sleeping in a tent with the kids over the RV. Most of my childhood vacations were spent in a tent.
There were five of us and my parents did not have alot of extra money, and we had a ton of fun. That is probably why I still prefer camping in a tent.
A few years ago, my parents downsized there house to and built a 1,200 square ft one that is on property adjoined to ours. They sold there other house, and paid cash for a smaller one. It is a great set up and we both have our privacy and separate entrances, yards, etc. The best part is my kids can come home everyday and walk next door to Grandma's until I get home.
So my parents finally splurged on a car. Good for them. I bet if you ask Jack, his parents probably saved their entire lives, worked hard, and a starting have a little fun now too. Isn't it suppossed to be that way?
As for the XBOX, it was a great purchase! I laugh more in the hour or so we play at night, than most people laugh in a week. My husband walks by and tries to figure out what could possibly be so hysterical sitting in a ridiculous chair wearing headset. He just thinks I am slightly retarded, and XBOX aside, he is probably right. I doubt anyone on LIVE has as much fun as we do!
Hawaii's economy would die without consumers. Their tourism is down, and I can't tell you how many calls or mailers I have received from resorts in the last month offer unbelievable packages just to get us back over. Even the airlines are offering cheap airfare from LAX. Our last trip we took in June, I got a week at the Westin in Kauai and a rental car for just over $500.
Ross, where are you???????
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Excess depends on your perspective. To me, almost every one of you look like you're living in excess. I have to remind myself that you all earned that right so there's no problem with it.
Our entire society has evolved and depends on consumerism. If we all started living in self sustainable communes and rode bikes to work and made our own clothes, the country and economy would collapse. I'm not justifying consumerism at all. Just pointing out the facts.
I despise consumerism and fight tooth and nail any time Megan wants to buy me anything name brand. I don't take it as far as purchasing everything second hand. I still try and get high end clothes for my children. I'm not going to force my anti-consumerism on them when they don't have a choice. But I will try and educate them concerning it.
Despite it's affects on the environment, I think all this (consumerism) has a much greater negative effect on our psyches.
How fitting that my hold music is "Paved Paradise and Put Up A Parking Lot."
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I do have 3 XBOX's but compared to some on the site that's not over the top. Also, I hate to say it but in order to go on a cruise with Jack and Angie, Melissa and I are going to have to put it on a credit card, so hate away Bunky. It's the only way we can book it right now, and Melissa really wants to go. I think in the end creating these memories with our friends will be more important than being fiscally responsible. 25 years from now I'm not going to be saying, damn I wished I was more fiscally responsible instead of going on a cruise and having a great time with my friends.
In a perfect world Melissa and I would have the money readily available however we don't. So by Bunky's rational we shouldn't be going at all because we have kids and other responsibilities. If that's the case Melissa and I would never go anywhere. I'm sorry but we're going and while we came up with a plan to pay off the credit card it's not optimal since we don't have the money up front. So it looks like I am excessive, Bunky.
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Robot - perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you. I acknowledge I'm an offender of excessive consumerism, however I also acknowledge that it's bad for the environment as a whole and far less necessary than advertisers would have us believe.
From and ecological standpoint, owning a BMW and a Hyundai are relatively equal offenses depending on the manufacturing controls, gas mileage, and other factors. I've been Driving a Hyundai Sonata for the last 3 weeks and it does it's job fine. So from that standpoint it makes little sense to spend more money on a BMW. Now having owned a BMW, I can tell you the engineering is far superior. I now own a Toyota which may be more reliable than the BMW, but again the engineering characteristics which I value are inferior imo. The selfish side of me would buy a BMW because I admire the quality of the machine because there is an added element of artistry involved in the BMW over the Hyundai or Toyota. It's that essence that appeals to me over the prestige factor.
I don't care about the waste of money that is consumerism invites, I more concerned about the ecological impact of everybody in the world buying unnecessary shit. Again, I reiterate for Robot - I'm guilty of this. However I acknowledge it's a problem and I'm taking small, incremental steps to correct it.
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John said:
I do have 3 XBOX's but compared to some on the site that's not over the top. Also, I hate to say it but in order to go on a cruise with Jack and Angie, Melissa and I are going to have to put it on a credit card, so hate away Bunky. It's the only way we can book it right now, and Melissa really wants to go. I think in the end creating these memories with our friends will be more important than being fiscally responsible. 25 years from now I'm not going to be saying, damn I wished I was more fiscally responsible instead of going on a cruise and having a great time with my friends.
In a perfect world Melissa and I would have the money readily available however we don't. So by Bunky's rational we shouldn't be going at all because we have kids and other responsibilities. If that's the case Melissa and I would never go anywhere. I'm sorry but we're going and while we came up with a plan to pay off the credit card it's not optimal since we don't have the money up front. So it looks like I am excessive, Bunky.
I would say 3 XBOXs is over the top when you have other financial obligations to your friends who don't have any 360s
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Bells, I am not going to hate away. I personally have a fear of credit card debit. I will not be going to Hawaii next summer because I would rather take the extra money I would spend going on paying our new boat off and would feel guilty spending the money on that versus paying down a debt.
This thread, as are all of them, are a matter of opinion. We all live our lives differently.
My husband has told me on several occassions to quit my job and he would pick up per diem shifts at a pharmacy a couple of times a month to pay extra on his student loans.
I enjoy working, but more importantly for me, I would rather work and pay the loans off in half the time and have extra money to put in savings for the kids college and keep them in activities that they enjoy. I would rather do this now while my Mom is able to help out with daycare. I have a job with a flexible schedule and so far have been able to balance both.
Patrick would make more an hour as a per diem pharmacist than I would, but I think it would be selfish of me to have him working extra hours when he already works 60 hours or so during the week. I don't think it would be fair to put all the financial pressure on him. Plus everyone needs down time and he would miss the kids and vice versa.
I hate credit cards because once you get in a hole, it is hard to get out of. I can't see paying a bank ridiculous finance charges, not to mention, it drops your credit rating once you are over a certain percentage. It is just one of my many quirks.
If you have a Costco card, you can put $100 deposit down per person and make payments on your cruise as long as it is paid 45 days in advance. I do this with all my trips I book and it avoids the finance charge. They have great airfare prices too, and if you need that as well, the deposit holds your flight.
The entire time Patrick was in school we didn't go anywhere. Why, because we couldn't afford it.
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Not sure where to jump in on this thread, as it appears to be the long-running hot topic du jour. Incidentally, I definitely invite people to create new threads whenever they think it's appropriate in the interest of keeping them shorter and making them easier to navigate, to say nothing of keeping them on topic.
So, some of the topics in this one from a ways back I missed out on:
Bank of America buying Merrill Lynch: this is definitely going to be the biggest acquisition we've done since I've been there, and will have the most impact on my job by far. Right now I'm finishing up work on transitioning LaSalle Bank clients onto our platform, but Merrill was a much bigger player in the foreign exchange markets than them - in fact, they were only a few places behind us, so it will be interesting to see what their capabilities are compared to ours. Initial thoughts are that they are not as strong technically, which is good - meaning we'll cannabalize them and not the other way around. Still, it will probably be close to a year before I really know anything that will be actionable. But we didn't buy them for their forex abilities: we bought them for their brokerage and wealth management, so it's not foremost on the top brass' minds right now what to do with us.
A better question is, what about Morgan Stanley? It definitely appears, surprisingly, that the big retail banks are the stable ones and the standalone investment banks are cracking up. Fatty, what's the word in your office? You think you'll merge with Wachovia? Are people dropping like flies, looking for new jobs yet?
Bailouts: I think it's too early to tell what to think about this government sponsored mess. Ostensibly, they're doing it to minimize damage to the economy. That could very well happen, of course, though, you'll never know whether leaving things alone to collapse would be better or worse overall. The thing is, we should all be mad, not necessarily at the decision to bail these companies out (Fannie and Freddie were no brainers, though, IMO), but rather how did we let these guys get by with such a pale imitation of regulation? Things are going to change big time when it comes to trading these types of securities, that much is certain. What's really a joke is McCain's take on all this, talking about how he'd have fixed it, or blaming Democrats for this mess. He's famously anti-regulation! So this leads me to...
Recent political developments: Well, thank goodness the Palin frenzy is dying down. I don't think I've ever seen a bigger joke candidate for office since junior high student council. What's especially distressing is that McCain not only chose her out of what could only be cynicism for the intelligence of the electorate, but it really shows how bad his judgement really is. This woman is in no way qualified to hold the second highest office in the land, and anyone who claims her experience is comparable to Obama's really isn't being serious. It's just an untenable position to hold. And I'm not only talking about her experience: she's just a prettier version of GW Bush, as far as I can tell - she's just as stupid, just as dogmatic and bullheaded. The wrong person for the job. Don't Americans recognize this when they see her talk?
But like I said, the really sad thing here is what a complete ass McCain has turned out to be. He talks about bringing "change to Washington" (they all do, every election cycle, does anyone buy this anymore?) but there's nothing about his campaign that suggests he would: he is running an incredibly dirty campaign, smearing Obama left and right with lies and half-truths one after another - the same way Bush did to him to beat him in the primaries! This is much more a Rethuglican tactic than a Democratic one, just go to factcheck.org (a non-partisan site) and see for yourself. It really pisses me off. If it were up to me, I probably couldn't stop myself from sinking to his level and Swift-boating McCain's ass: use his military service against him, make up lies about him being a pussy in the POW camps. After all, we know that shit works. The Republicans aren't above doing anything it takes to win, but Democrats just don't seem to be able to get there.
Any respect I once had for McCain has completely evaporated. I hate him almost as much as Bush now.
Anyway, I'll probably open up a new political thread here, to track some of the mre outrageous links I seem to find every day.
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I love it, Bert. Good to have you back.
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I agree with you on McCain Ross. When Obama's spokeperson made an offhanded remark about Palin being nominated, Obama condemned his spokesperson, and defended Palin.
My respect for how he has ran his entire campaign is what has drawn me to him, and alienated me from the Republican Party.
As for my concerns with his tax plan, we are all pretty much fucked. With all the bailouts and Bush's Ecomonic Stimulus Package, any candidate is going to have raise taxes.
McCain is full of shit regarding the banking fiasco. It is both parties fault, and Palin actually stated that in an interview I watched. There was no accountability for these people and their regulations are so outdated it is a joke.
I really wish I was able to scan the letter I got from the CA Republican Party. I don't know if you could type fast enough to respond!
Here are some highlights:
If you listen to Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Howard Dean, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer and the rest of the Democrat "leaders," Republicans are a bunch of war-happy, coporate coddling, planet-polluting MONSTERS.
I hope you are just as outraged by their attacks. Because as someone who faithfully supports our Party's candidates and cause, they're talking about you too!
Yet these are the very people who want to raise our taxes, change the make-up of the Supreme Court, raid the federal budget, reduce our personal freedom and retreat from a war we are winning.
We can't expect the otherside to play nice.
We can't hope our opponents will wage a fair campaign.
And we can't count on the liberal media - on local TV stations or national broadcasts - to provide fair coverage.
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Hurray! The Bert is back!! Fattz has been a little busy putting in lots of hours for Morgan AND the Stanley. We have 2 audits next month before I head to the US... so lots of SHIT to go through.
There really has not been any time for me to look at whats going on stateside. I am aware of things because of MS... But the crap I hear in the news is FAR different from the company. I hate the news now-a-days, and I don't trust what I hear.
First off... I don't agree with the bail-outs. Its BS. Bad companies that make bad decisions and cannot compete in the world marketplace should be allowed to fail. Government bailouts do not force companies to do the right thing. They allow poor companies to survive and remain non-competitive. Employees are not transferred to new industries and the economy will stagnate in the long-term. Now stabilizing the marketplace is another issue... The stockmarket is a fickle and emotional instrument. It is supposed to be a free market and as a free market, should be allowed to find its own value. With the bail-outs, that doesn't happen. Which kind of gets me to think... where is all this bail-out loot going? The banks??? Great... those rich fucks that profit on both the ups and the downs will get all their bad desicions bought off?? Lots of golden parachutes coming out of this and a lot of happy bankers.
So the skinny on MS... we are the number 2 investment bank right now. Three of our main competitiors pretty much are gone. We've been reducing our risk exposure over the last year, are flush with cash, and can meet all our obligations without raising capital well into 2009. We ain't hurtin. In fact, MS and Gold-Sachs are poised to do very well as being the only 2 stand-alone investment banks.
There has been a lot of talk with banks and other investors. MS is keeping its options open.. but from what I hear, we are not too interested in going that route unless we have to. I don't think we have to.
But all this stuff has pretty much pissed me off. I can easily place the blame on the current administration. I can't believe that the bitch, sold out media is still pissing republican on us and saying it is raining. Why is America still eating the spoon-fed shit on a daily basis is beyond me.
McCain.... fuck. I loved him 8 years ago and was gunning for him for president. Now?? WTF!!!?? He is one pathetic son of a bitch. Out-of-touch, sold-out, and running a deceitful campaign. Everything he stood for before is gone. Fuck him. Palin. Good lord. You'd think the republicans are trying to throw the election. I can just see them winning again and 8 more years of dumb rule.
Thanks.... I will stay over in Europe until things smarten up. At least it sucks over here and I understand it.
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Well Fatty, I'm sure most of your conterparts at Lehman and Merrill thought the same thing before things went to shit. It definitely sounds to me like Morgan Stanley is not exactly sitting pretty right now. Time will tell.
Bunky, I agree about taxes, mostly. We can't afford either tax cut that McCain or Obama promise, especially not with all this new money going into buying up shitty loans. It still grates on me tremendously, though, that McCain consistently mischaracterizes Obama's plan as "raising taxes." Of course that's only true if you make over $250k, and even then it's a completely imperceptible increase to the point where it's really no exaggeration to say that you have to make $600k before you'll see a tax increase.
I must confess though, Bunky, I don't understand your railing against the writeoffs for student loans. Yes, I'm a victim of the same (via Heather's loans). I'm sure your husband's loans are much larger than hers, but for someone who thinks that $250k per year is still the middle class, you really can't be hurting that much from being unable to write off the interest on his loans, no matter how big they are. It sounds like you're just grousing for grousing's sake (which is something I think we all can relate to) since you clearly do understand that cutting taxes is a strategy to getting elected, but in this economic climate, it's not the solution to running our country with competency.
As for that letter from the republicans... wow. In true jackass form, they take every criticism levelled at them over the past 8 years, and accuse the other side of being the only real perpetrators. They truly are evil. Do you like how they can summon up outrage for attacks that they don't even quote? Just ideas of what they say Dems are calling them? Democrats have no such trouble. I can find you link after link of Republicans outright lying about Democrats.
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I have done some more research into Obama's tax plan, and it may not have as huge of an impact as I thought, and given the current situation, taxes are going to have to be raised. My adjusted gross income is nowhere near what Obama is targeting.
In fact, looking back at my past taxes, I have been hit by federal for an additional amount the last few years, but nothing as extreme as state taxes. It is the CA state taxes that kill me and most of the middle class out here.
Much like you and Heather, it is difficult in the areas you and I live in to have a dual income household make under $110k a year. I don't think it is unreasonable to reform some of these tax laws and adjust the limits according to inflation. I don't think raising the cutoff to $150k-$175 is a bad thing on the student loan cap or child tax credit.
I want to clarify, I do not fall into the wealthy group. My understanding of Obama's plan was that is was going to start below the $250k a year and that is what concerned me.
I did choose the 10 year term on our loans because I hate the thought of paying so much additional interest and dragging it out 30 years. That definetly raised the payment quit a bit, but I want to be done with these before my daughter starts college.
Robot's comment on being out of touch really struck me. I have never lived outside of California, and live in one of the more affordable (used to be anyhow) areas of the state. Robot made me look outside of my world and see that while our cost of living is ridiculously higher, so are are wages. Why anyone would move into this state is beyond me. I now see why many of my parents friends have moved after retirement.
McCain can dream of not raising taxes, but I don't even see how that is possible.
Jack mentioned you and Fatty have knowledge about college savings programs that are far better than regular savings account. Any suggestions?
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Ross said:
Well Fatty, I'm sure most of your conterparts at Lehman and Merrill thought the same thing before things went to shit. It definitely sounds to me like Morgan Stanley is not exactly sitting pretty right now. Time will tell.
Dude - Leman had all sorts of risky assets still on their books, that's why they got fucked. They took a big gamble and lost. Merrill got bought out, I am not so sure on what happened with them... but you bought em. I am not saying that MS will not get bought, but they are hardly hurting. Especially with the recent developments. I said we are flush with cash.... we are hardly sitting ugly... to the tune of $180 Billion in cash. The recent drop in the share price made things a little risky for a purchase, but, the bail-out rumors sent the price back up. I betcha Lehman and Merrill and wish they had a few more weeks. But they are the ones that forced this to happen.
I have a feeling that there is so much more shit to come from this.... It is certainly a terrible situation for everyone. It took Bush eight years, but this is a monumental 'FUCK-YOU AMERICA!' that is hitting right when he leaves. Wow, you could not fuck up the world more with his Iraq war and distroying the American economy. Well played sir.
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Sam Harris has a pretty good opinion column in the latest Newsweek about Sarah Palin. He says the a lot of the same shit I said except of course far better.
Perfect quote:
"Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics?
There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and
rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our
planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite
athletes to represent us in competition and elite scientists to devote
the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And
yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater
responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards
of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and
actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want
someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone
down-to-earth—in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn't
seem too intelligent or well educated."
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On top of that, according to the polls have shifted back to Obama at about the same level they were before the RNC. The only demographic that hasn't changed - women. Remind me why we gave them the right to vote?
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I'm sure we all had very different experiences in high school, but it seems
to me this whole thing is digging up some unpleasant memories for me. The
Republicans are basically playing the 'cool' kids; more concerned with their
social acceptance than their inability to compete academically. Since
they're a six-pack of IQ points away from clinically diagnosed retardation,
they lash out at the ones smart enough to diagnose it.
I was a C student, but excelled in music (yes, band-nerd). In 7th grade, my
band instructor started taking me to the high school to play in the band over
there. After two weeks, I was first chair. I got all the same
treatment an academically-gifted student would get when moved ahead. I
didn't see it that way at the time, of course, and I'm sure it achieved what
those future Arby's Asst. Managers intended.
Moral is: If you're ahead of the curve, you get mocked. If you're
behind the curve, you get to join the RNC.
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Angie forwarded this e-mail to me. It's amusing:
Subject: A Helpful Guide
I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....
- If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're "exotic, different."
- Grow up in Alaska eating moose burgers, a quintessential American story.
- If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
- Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick.
- Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
- Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.
- If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.
- If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.
- If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.
- If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
- If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
- If , while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant , you're very responsible.
- If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.
- If you're husband is nicknamed "First Dude", with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer now.
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Sorry for the small font... I had it normal size and now I can't even change it in edit mode! Help?
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NO TERRORIST ATTACKS
ON AMERICAN SOIL
SINCE SEPTEMBER 11.
HAVE THEY GIVEN UP?
ASK THE REST
OF THE WORLD.
This is how the cover of my MI Republican Party-sponsered absentee ballot request card that I got in the mail today read. Inside they have a world map dotted with terrorist markers. It continues:
Use your vote to keep America safe.
One party is prepared to lead America in a dangerous world.
The other has pledged to unconditionally negotiate with terrorists and dictators with diplomatic talks to better understand them.
THE DECISION IS YOURS.
Keep America Safe. Vote Republican.
Geesh. I'm so glad Bush and the GOP has made the world a safer place to live the last 8 years. Just sickening.
I've said it before and I think it's apt: Claiming Bush is a good president because we haven't had another terrorist attack is like me saying I have a great dentist because he hasn't killed me yet.
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Of course.
And we all know how our unwavering stance against Muslim extremism has created a safer environment for Americans worldwide.
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Jackzilla said:
Sorry for the small font... I had it normal size and now I can't even change it in edit mode! Help?
HA HA! I believe when this happened to me, your advice to me was "Font up, motherfucker!!".
LOL
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Jackzilla said:
Sorry for the small font... I had it normal size and now I can't even change it in edit mode! Help?
When that happens to me, I usually have to hit the "HTML" button and remove the <font> markup tags. That will definitely fix it, if you know what you're doing. :)
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That sounds like the quickest way to fornicate (tm) the process.
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Jackzilla said:
Angie forwarded this e-mail to me. It's amusing:
Subject: A Helpful Guide
I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....
Well, as much as it sounds like the right-wing version you got in terms of style, it's much saner. I don't much care for these kinds of snarky tracts that only preach to the converted on either side, but it's impossible to disagree that this is far less obnoxious than the neocon version.
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Cool, I will definitely get it. I'll only abstain and get a pirated version (if there's one to be had) if it's better quality than the free one. :)
Back to the election for a second, though. Something has really been bothering me lately. Why isn't Obama just killing McCain in the polls right now? Given the state of the financial sector, and that it happened under the Republicans' watch, and that McCain (and the guys running his campaign) were actually involved in making sure that very little regulation was taking place, and that McCain actually still says that was a good thing, why isn't Obama just cleaning house right now?
Is it just because most of the small-town Republican base doesn't have any stake in what happens on Wall Street? I mean, the rich Republicans will vote for deregulation every time anyway even if this kind of shit keeps happening, but the simple folk - I just don't get why they don't see how these guys are no good for them.
Most voters say the economy is the top issue right now (no longer the Iraq war). But if that's so, isn't it fucking clear that at least we need to get those currently responsible the fuck out? What are they (or I) missing?
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I am curious about these polls? Have any of you participated in one? I sure haven't.
I never trust the polls, because there is such a huge margin for error.
Granted most of my friends are Democrats, but I only know of a couple people supporting McCain right now.
There is a lot of hype surrounding the McCain Campaign because of Palin. Like they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
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Ross said:
Back to the election for a second, though. Something has really been bothering me lately. Why isn't Obama just killing McCain in the polls right now? Given the state of the financial sector, and that it happened under the Republicans' watch, and that McCain (and the guys running his campaign) were actually involved in making sure that very little regulation was taking place, and that McCain actually still says that was a good thing, why isn't Obama just cleaning house right now?
Is it just because most of the small-town Republican base doesn't have any stake in what happens on Wall Street? I mean, the rich Republicans will vote for deregulation every time anyway even if this kind of shit keeps happening, but the simple folk - I just don't get why they don't see how these guys are no good for them.
Most voters say the economy is the top issue right now (no longer the Iraq war). But if that's so, isn't it fucking clear that at least we need to get those currently responsible the fuck out? What are they (or I) missing?
I don't know either. I'd really like science to study this one. Maybe it's related to the same mechanism that compels otherwise rational people into believing in the big Easterbunny of the Sky. Most of my coworkers are Republicans and when I ask them, they tell me it's because McCain will basically continue our imperialistic approach to foreign policy (my words) and Obama will penalize hard working Americans with taxes so lazy poor people can get a tax break. To me, that clearly shows that you could pick Shemp to run for President and as long as he was backed by the GOP, he'd get a lot of votes. People vote the party and not the candidate.
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Ross said:
Well, as much as it sounds like the right-wing version you got in terms of style, it's much saner. I don't much care for these kinds of snarky tracts that only preach to the converted on either side, but it's impossible to disagree that this is far less obnoxious than the neocon version.
Not too long ago, someone started airing the right-wing equivilant to The Daily Show, and it illustrated this nicely. Whereas TDS comes off as funny-because-it's-true, and has a go at both sides (though admittedly more at the right), the neocon version just comes off as bitter, mean-spirited, and propagandistic (is that a word?).
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The Bone said:
I don't know either. I'd really like science to study this one.
Interestingly, Science Friday did a show on this very topic! I haven't listened to it yet, though. I realize that's not exactly what you were asking science to study, but it's interesting nonetheless.
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Wow. Just... wow.
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I can't wait for the VP debates.
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What a joke that woman is. People are excited by her... why, again?
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Ross said:
What a joke that woman is. People are excited by her... why, again?
I've been meaning to Photoshop a 'campaign poster' that illustrates this point, but not something I can do at work. Basically, I think people are excited about her because of how far her vagina slants to the right. That's how I understand it anyway.
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I stll cant believe how balanced the polls are. Shouldn't Obama be wiping the floor with them right about now?? I mean, did I hear correctly that Michigan is almost leaning towards McCain??
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Actually Nick Nick, the last I read, Obama was ahead in the polls, and things were starting to change. It will be interesting to see what happens with the scheduled debate tonight and if that has any effect.
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If they even go to the debate. McCain's throwing around the financial crisis as a reason not to go to the debate.
I'm just afraid there's still too much hidden bigotry in the world for Obama to be successful.
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What does McCain's playing politics with the financial crisis have to do with "hidden bigotry" against Obama?
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Sorry. That was supposed to be 2 seperate paragraphs.
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McCain will be at the debate. His 2 day campaign suspension is over. We can all move on with our lives now.
So Ross, being in the financial world, what do you think of this mess?
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I think the bailout is a bad idea. The economy is fucked either way. I think that giving $700B in taxpayer money as a loan won't fix the root problem - corporate greed and lack of accountability.
Maybe put a freeze on capitol gains tax but that's about all I'd do. I'd let the market sort itself out and in the end it will be healthier.
What sucks for me is back in the day when the getting was good on buying a house, I didn't because I didn't think I had the financial means to properly support the expense. Come to find out tons of people less qualified than me got no money down loans and in turn made a lot of money from the growing bubble. No one is asking for money back from them because they made out. Of course that would be absurd. So in turn why should we help the fuckers who are being foreclosed? Same thing goes for corporations.
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It certainly doesn't feel like a free market economy right now.
I also think the bailout is a bad idea. I think all we're doing is prolonging the inevitable crash. I wonder if we could possibly be making things worse with this bailout.
This kind of reminds me of an old Ducktales cartoon. Uncle Scrooge drops a bottle cap into some remote civilization causing this huge ruckus over who's rich withe bottle cap. In order to solve this crisis, Uncle Scrooge flies over the village again and dumps loads of bottle caps on the village and inundates these people.... saturating the market.
I think the Fed is just dumping bottlecaps on the market to try and fix it.
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I saw more of the interview with Couric and Palin was trying to defend her foreign policy experience by saying that Putin was rearing his ugly head and flying over U.S. airspace in Alaska. I know from direct first hand knowledge that while Russian aircraft have flown into our Air Defense Identification Zone, they never, ever flew into our airspace. The way she delivered that makes it perfectly clear in my mind that she has absolutely no idea what she is talking about and is far less qualified to be VP than just about anyone else McCain could have chosen. She should be dismissed out of hand. McCain picked her so I have to question his ability to make the right decision for anything.
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I am not so comfortable with the bail-out either. Their are other ways to make markets more liquid than giving money to the banks. Shit, you could drop interest rates, make money cheap. Dumb fucks that are being foreclosed on could refi and keep their houses. At least the gov would get some money back with interest. Buying up all these bad loans is silly. Let the market run its course. Its been a week of talking and things are still running. WaMu is going under. Keep the money for the FDIC insurance so folks don't lose their savings. Give them cheap loans so they keep their homes. Don't give greedy banks money to save them from bad decisions. The need to face consequences. The AIG bailout might not be a bad deal. From what I understand, the government is giving them a loan. Shit, the gov should not be giving away our tax dollars anyway. Charge them bitches interest!
Bunky, I take exception to asking Ross questions about financial matters because he works at a bank. He is in IT. You should ask Ross questions about financial matters because he is a smart fuck who reads up on shit. Your assumption would lead people to ask the janitorial staff at BoA about their options on the bail-out. Some may be smart fucks too, but most would not have a clue to whats what.
You get a Fatty Harrumph!
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Fuck the bail out! Did you watch the president's speach? He tried to make it sound like it was almost like a loan... that eventually these assets would rise in value, the gov't could down the road sell it off and get it's money back. Good luck with that. It would be a flat-out trillion dollar gift to all his CEO "friends" is what it would be. Isn't this the same president and administration that just days ago was saying the economy was strong and wouldnt utter the word "recession"? So, either you were clueless then or lying. Either way, F you now!
I don't believe for a minute that without a bail out no one will be in the lending business anymore. Hogwash. And in fact, if unemployment goes up, you could spend that trillion dollars later to build more hospitals, schools... employ people and actually GET SOMETHING for your money.
And McCain better be at the debates tonight -- I'm ready to see this cockfight and I wanna see some blood!
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I just want to see them actually ANSWER some questions instead of letting shit flow out like the last couple of debates have looked like.
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Hey Fatty, I am expected to have some domain knowledge of global markets to do my job effectively, albeit it's mostly just currency markets.
Anyway, I largely agree that the bailout is bullshit. I don't like the idea of the corporate execs not getting fucked as a result of all of this. And I agree to an extent that homeowners shouldn't be rewarded for taking on too much credit that they can't pay back. However, you have to be pragmatic at some point if you want to get some of the money back, and it would probably be a good idea to lower their rates so at least we can recoup the payments on their debts.
I think Bush is right in a half-assed, roundabout way: once (if) the housing debacle straightens out, it's easier for current defaulters to make good on their loans, by selling their houses. But as long as the market is shit, and credit sucks, people aren't getting loans to buy those houses anyway, so it's kind of a feedback loop. It remains to be seen, IMO, if doing this will help the overall economy in the long run, but I don't think it's a slam dunk either way.
Anyhow, I can't wait for the debate tonight. I'm looking at it light a night of high entertainment!
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Fuck the Fats and his assumptions! Not only does Ross work for a bank in IT, after reading numerous posting regarding the housing market, and other economic issues I gathered he knew he shit! Therefore the general statement "being a financial guy" was used.
So here's a big suck it for your inappropriate harumphing!
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In light of Washington Mutual going down on a $16.7B run by the public over the last 10 days, I bet McCain really wishes he could take back that comment about the economy being fundamentally sound.
What's scary is a coworker of mine predicted this almost exactly as it's been going down over a year ago. The only difference he said it would hit around August so he was a month off. He also said it would get worse. BTW, golds gone up over a hundo in the last two weeks. Anyone got some shotguns?
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Whatever Bunkz... I used to work in a hospital in food service. You want to ask me some questions and save you a trip to the Gyno? Don't worry, I was there for over 5 years... and I look at a lot of porn. Relax, sit back, and tell Doctor Fatz where it tickles.
I think some of you will enjoy this site:
http://www.engrish.com/
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Another thing on the bailout: the Fannie and Freddie thing seems much more palatable to me than this new $700bn thing, not only because of dollar amounts involved, but because in the former case, the government effectively took over those companies. Granted, they were implicitly federally backed to begin with, but now it's made explicit so that any future profits will be enjoyed by the taxpayers (in theory).
But with this bailout, we're basically saying "okay, we'll take your shittiest loans off your hands at bargain prices". And taxpayers don't see any of the benefit if this helps out the firms in question.
I also think that not only should all top execs at these firms be fired, but they shouldn't be able to get those massive severance packages. I can't believe they still try to defend that practice...
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BigFatty said:
Whatever Bunkz... I used to work in a hospital in food service. You want to ask me some questions and save you a trip to the Gyno? Don't worry, I was there for over 5 years... and I look at a lot of porn. Relax, sit back, and tell Doctor Fatz where it tickles.
That's not quite an accurate analogy, Fatstyle... I don't do generic shit related to IT (like PC repair or networking) - I do software development that directly supports trading in the single largest economic market in the world - bigger than all others combined! (Does that sound sufficiently self-important?). My job does require a certain level of understanding of the specific financial domain, which falls under the umbrella of investment banking.
That said, that doesn't mean I know anything more about mortgage-backed securities than what I read in the Economist or hear on NPR. :)
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Ross said:
BigFatty said:
Whatever Bunkz... I used to work in a hospital in food service. You want to ask me some questions and save you a trip to the Gyno? Don't worry, I was there for over 5 years... and I look at a lot of porn. Relax, sit back, and tell Doctor Fatz where it tickles.
That's not quite an accurate analogy, Fatstyle... I don't do generic shit related to IT (like PC repair or networking) - I do software development that directly supports trading in the single largest economic market in the world - bigger than all others combined! (Does that sound sufficiently self-important?). My job does require a certain level of understanding of the specific financial domain, which falls under the umbrella of investment banking.
That said, that doesn't mean I know anything more about mortgage-backed securities than what I read in the Economist or hear on NPR. :)
Where does Palin's foreign policy expertise resulting from Alaska's proximity to Russia fall in the Fatty to Ross scale of analogies?
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So as far as the debate tonight... meh. I really got annoyed by McCain's continual assertion that Obama "doesn't understand X", playing into this idea that he is young and McCain has learned some things via experience that Obama hasn't.
I thought Obama handled himself better, but I thought McCain still played better to people that probably don't have their minds already made up - people who will actually think that snarky comments are important. You notice how Obama kept objecting that McCain was saying things that were untrue? That's because McCain has made a habit of lying through his teeth. Will the average voter recognize this as the truth, or view Obama as playing politics? The election rests on this question.
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Unfortunately I missed the debate but the recap I read said McCain was condescending towards Obama's youth and inexperience. Some polling shows Obama won the debates so lets hope the average voter realizes the truth. Likely? Not in a nation where people buy Cadillac Escalades and believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
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The Bone said:
Unfortunately I missed the debate but the recap I read said McCain was condescending towards Obama's youth and inexperience. Some polling shows Obama won the debates so lets hope the average voter realizes the truth. Likely? Not in a nation where people buy Cadillac Escalades and believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Bone, first off, my mother who bought an Escalade and believes in Jesus was completely turned off by the way McCain responded to questions and was condesending in his reply's towards Obama. I am sure if I call her this morning, I will still hear about it.
Second, as a person who enjoys riding in the Escalade, (especially in winter when it is cold and I can turn the seat heaters on in the back seat! Oh did I mention the Bose surround sound headets for the dvd player?), and believes in Jesus, it was often annoying to me that McCain somewhat attacked Obama directly first, and then answered the question.
I think your experience with the religious sector in Michigian has you stereotyping individuals that believe in God. In fact, I would argue that the traditional religious sector would support Obama more than McCain for several different reasons.
The issue with the average voter is going their level of education and understanding of the importance of the issues at hand, and whether or not they take the time to research them. Religion is not the issue here, nor is the brand of car they drive.
As far as the debate goes, I didn't feel any questions were really answered that I did already know the answer to. My Republican self was impressed yet again by Obama's refusal to lower himself to McCain's level. Even when he was clearly annoyed, Obama always maintained a level of professionalism in his responses.
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I caught the last 15 minutes of a rebroadcast on CNN while I was at work this afternoon. I thought McCain was a condescending ass. As Ross pointed out, he kept saying how Obama did not understand... or he was naive. Shit, McDouche... you are an idiot.... too bad Obama did not stoop to your level and called you out on all the questionable issues of your character. McCain came across to me as a sleazy, swarmy, creep. To think I once thought he was a respectable person.
Plus.... am I the only one who is tired of the Republican party putting their dick up my ass then immediately say they are NOT fucking me. There seems to be a lot of them doing something then blaming their opponents for doing the very thing (and their opponents are not even doing this!) Then you got Fox (not) News saying such ridiculous things. How can they be allowed to be called journalists? They are purely republican spin machines.
It is still hard to believe that the Daily Show is the only place I go for trustworthy news these days. I should go for the Economist or pick up the Financial Times here.
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The Escalade is a symbol of decadence and American consumer ignorance in my opinion. Anyone who owns one, in some small way, contributes to the death of 18 yr old soldiers in Iraq so they can cruise around in an outrageously ostentatious vehicle that sucks gas, pollutes the environment, and makes irresponsible corporate executives rich while fucking over the economy by asking for government loans to get their fucked up business practice back on track. Your mother wants to support that? Fine, cause hell, it's got heated seats so maybe it's worth it.
My statement was of course a generalization as I'm sure there are a couple Republicans that thought Obama did a better job in the debate. By the way, I did see a big black Escalade yesterday with a McCain/Palin sticker.
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I applaude you Bone at your ability to stereotype people with such narrow minded views.
It also makes me laugh since you live in location that is dependent on consumer excess for it's economy to survive. Since the main role of the military is national defense, I guess I could generalize that you are an advocate of war, since the mere threat of it keeps you employed.
How many MPG's does a Naval Ship get during training exercise?
Since the Navy destroyed the Hawaiian island of Kaho'olawe with munitions testing and bombing exercises, displaced native Hawaiians, cattle ranchers, and destroyed sacred historical places, I should generalize that you are also anti-environment and your previous rants are nothing more than pure bullshit.
I guess being the poster boy for American Hypocrisy does have it perks since it has been sucessful in getting you laid. Maybe you can take your picture in front of the glass house you live in and post here.
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Thanks, for the applause but I'm not sure how where I live has to do with the price of tea in China. If not one other motherfucker came to visit Hawaii it wouldn't really affect me because my income is derived from the national coffers. Hell, the whole island chain could go back to eating coconuts and fish and living in grass huts and I'd join them. I'd argue that the indigenous people were better off before the invasion of whitey than they are now.
Since the role of the military is national defense, you could logically generalize that I'm an advocate of national defense. If war is necessary for national defense then I support that step in the process.
FYI, the Navy has since worked hard to clean up Kaho' olawe and actually implements as many environmentally friendly policies as practicable but that's neither here nor there. As a whole the Navy's carbon footprint is quite high but thats the trade off for national defense - an honorable ends which to an extent justifies the means, unlike an Escalade.
Perhaps I am a hypocrite but as I've said before, I'm fucked up and I recognize it. I am making incremental steps to rectify the very things in my life that I criticize others for. Where you and I differ is I recognize I'm fucked up and you think gross consumerism is an American right and morally justified.
Anyways, I found this interesting and a possible reason the religious folk are often duped by the Republicans.
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That's a funny article, Bone, and somewhat validated by other things I've read, but I do agree that that professor's conclusions are overly simplistic. Mainly because I believe that the reason top academics (who definitely do have a much lower level of supernatural belief than the rest of society) believe the way they do is because of education, not intelligence. Now, obviously, the two are correlated, as you can't be an idiot in most cases and reach top levels of academia, especially science. But I think it's the constant confrontation with the way nature really works, day in and day out - the bread and butter of science - that eventually wears you down and makes you realize that there's just no need to posit a creator, and that the supernatural also isn't necessary to explain strange phenomena.
But the reason I largely reject the intelligence explanation is that I know several otherwise highly intelligent people who are wackadoo religious nutjobs (by my admittedly highly critical eye). They were raised that way from the get-go, and usually have had life experiences where religion has had a dramatic emotional impact on their lives, to such an extent that no amount of reasoning can dislodge their faith.
I know that my dad grew up in a pretty religious household - his father actually taught Sunday school at their church (at least when I was around, not sure if he did when my dad was a kid). He grew up in an insular whitebread Leave It To Beaver style setting, white picket fence and all. But once he got to the University of Illinois, and saw all of these lifestyles so different than his own, he started getting preachy and telling people what kinds of sinners they were - well, you can imagine that didn't win him any friends. But between studying physics (he took every physics course the school offered - even ones not intended for physics majors) and apparently meeting some smart dude who sat him down and patiently explained why religion was a sham - he eventually snapped out of it, and never went into a church again.
However, I have every belief that this is abnormal. And I also think that if he had had some kind of crisis prior to that, say, a parent dying at a young age and the rest of the family went harder core religious to cope, he would have been lost forever, regardless of his IQ.
Incidentally, he would never tell me the story of why he was an atheist when I was a kid - I knew that he was, but my mom would take us kids to church on Sundays and when I asked why dad didn't come, she'd tell me he didn't believe in God, and to ask him why not, and he'd just say he'd tell me when I was older. He didn't end up telling me until I was 18! He thought I should have been raised religious (since he was, and he was obviously perfect) as it would impart a certain amount of morals on me. Then, when I grew older, I'd inevitably snap out of the belief part, as he did, but keep the moral aspect. What he didn't count on is that I apparently have a much higher level of capacity for philosophical thought than he does, and I have since realized that the moral basis of religion is based on the belief in a god, so if I don't believe in that, why would I believe in any of the moral teachings? It takes a lot of work to derive your own moral compass and not coincidentally it largely jibes with most religions anyway, but that only proves that morals don't come from up on high, but they are obvious outgrowths of human society. But I digress...
I'm not claiming that a nominal amount of education would "cure" the average Joe of god belief. I think it takes a whole lot of constant reinforcement of the harsh reality of nature before it really starts to sink in... so I'm saying I think that for a relatively smart person who has been inundated by religion their whole lives, it probably takes a lot of education.
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Brilliant. I think your views reflect an accurate representation of reality.
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I actually hadn't seen this when I had seen Tina Fey doing this on SNL. Turns out Fey didn't even need to exaggerate or change anything! There's almost no difference between this and the parody!
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Nick Nick is hearing Status 404 in his head?
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Oh shit. Speaking of little voices, it looks like the House is finally listening to all the little voices of the people that voted for their asses. About frickin time. This bail-out is the only option given, but it is hardly the only option. They need to go back and look at how to save the economy by saving Joe Six Pack and his dumb, over-mortgaging ass. Go and re-write all those bad loans to people and allow them to keep their houses with low payments. They pay off their defaulted loans. Banks get their money back, and the market is liquid again. The government gets interest on their loan. Sound overly simple? You betcha. This bail-out BS is BULLSHIT! How can this be a surprise to anyone?? It is WAY too much money going to the people that caused this mess.
FUCK EM! But I do hope I get a nice bonus this year!
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I say fuck the bailout and let armageddon occur.
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I agree with the writer. Our country is in shambles right now. If McCain wins I think the country won't be able to pull out of the nose dive Bush left us in.
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As far as the bailout goes, I'm starting to come around. It's not perfect, and I definitely feel like the execs who made the bad decisions aren't being punished enough, but at the same time, I think the strong consensus is that inaction is going to be disastrous to everyone, not just the guilty parties. This article has a good summary of why. So I hope they pass something soon, but it won't make me any less angry.
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While I've stayed reasonably up-to-date on this whole issue, I seem to have lost track of whether the 'no oversight, no scrutiny' clause. Does anyone know if that is still part of the package? It was the stipulation that the funds allocated for this and the use and dispersion of said funds was to be exempt from review by any legislative or judicial body. No court, no attorney, no judges. We basically hand over the check and walk away (holding our collective assholes).
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I'm off mixed opinion. In an interview I recently saw, Obama made a good case for the bailout. However, I still have a problem with it. I read somewhere that the American families have an average of $9500 in credit card debt. A lot of them also secured low intere
st ARMs with no money down on their houses. American people are as much too blame as the large companies. I my sense is we need an economic ass kicking to bring us back to reality. It's directly related to the gross consumerism I've been speaking about. Now it's time to pay the piper and though it will effect me too, I'm prepared to suffer while we rebuild otherwise we are just going to end up handing future generations an unsalvageable turd of a country.
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The Bone said:
Now it's time to pay the piper and though it will effect me too, I'm prepared to suffer while we rebuild otherwise we are just going to end up handing future generations an unsalvageable turd of a country.
If there's a country to hand them.
I think our new national anthem should be Flag Pole Sitta by Harvey Danger..... especially the part about stupid people breeding.
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McCain better make her read some of those newspapers and hire a tutor to prep her for the debates. By the way, I want to farm Anna Paquin.
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Ross said:
Want another Palin howler? Here you go.
Classic. First, I love how Katie loses interest about 15 seconds into the interview and starts looking around.
And she's really good at using the Republican tactic of turning a question against the asker. "You know, Alaska isn't a different country way up there..."
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I'm a little disappointed that I'm going to miss the VP debates tonight. I have Jiu Jitsu followed by potential fornication with a buxom beauty.
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The Bone said:
I'm a little disappointed that I'm going to miss the VP debates tonight. I have Jiu Jitsu followed by potential fornication with a buxom beauty.
Sucks to be you Bone!
I think?
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Unless the Repoopicans are severely sweet with tactics and have made Palin out to be a dumbass all these weeks on purpose, only to have her manipulate Biden in the debate to come across folksy, witty, and smart... well I wonder if it is too late for McCain to switch. The more video I see of Palin, the more disgusting it is that she really is in this. Is she really a much better canidate than Romney?
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I don't think McCain can switch. I think the RNC would have to do it since they've already voted her in separately.
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Here is an opinion piece that agrees with the Fatty way. It still may not be the best way, but at this point I'd rather have someone other than our dumbass administration figure shit out and give options.
LA Times
The new bill is about 100 Billion dollars more with regional 'economic incentives' (cough - PORK) to sweet up the bill for some politicians.
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A. She's really not attractive. On the off chance I was ever given the chance to bang her, I get the feeling she would just give me that fake smile while she told me all the things she thought I was doing wrong.
B. I can see why Republicans (really, really right-wing) like her: She has that deer-in-the-headlights look that all good God-fearing Christian women have. It's a look that says "I'm extremely susceptible to influence from others and I will parrot whatever lines I'm given."
C. She is not 'folksy and cute'. She's dumb as a bag of hammers; another reason she's loved by the Right.
If they really wanted to use a woman to increase their chances of winning, they should have put a vagina on John McCain and had him run alone.
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She really is Bush in a dress, too. How many times did she say nuke-ular last night? Oh, am I being elitist by asking that politicians actually pronounce words - important ones - correctly? Sorry.
Also, I predict John Stewart will juxtapose her drivel about "terrorists hating us for our freedoms" with Bush doing the exact same spiel. When people who know absolutely nothing about freedom, who thrive on taking freedom away from their constituents say shit like that, it makes my blood boil. Who on earth can defend McCain's choice here?
She's actually scarier to me than Bush. It's clear that she has absolutely NO clue about anything going on in the world outside of Wasilla, Alaska, and is simply regurgitating the facts they crammed into her over the last couple of weeks. She is an embarassment on so many levels. But it also appears that she really is a crazed religious zealot in a way that Bush only occasionally seemed to be, usually in deference to the religious right. Her church is so nutty that honestly, anyone who goes there of their own free will not only shouldn't be allowed to hold office, in my opinion, but they shouldn't even be allowed to vote. Fuck us all.
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Every time she didn't know how to answer a question she went into another "God bless this" or "I'm a maverick that" rant. To quote an old sketch from an Adam Sandler cd, "I already heard that one you repeatin' piece of shit." How could this seem like a good idea to anyone? I can understand some people finding her like-able, but not as a VP. I say good day.
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The Roches were over to watch the debate with us and we agreed that if you made a drinking game out of it ("She said 'Maverick' or he said 'Scranton' take another shot!") you would be Woooooo Fucked Up by the end of the night!
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That reminds me of early on, when she basically admitted that she wouldn't answer questions directly. As if to say, "we all know I'm full of shit, and I admit that, so I'll change the subject when I get into trouble, and that's my prerogative." At least, that's how I interpreted that.
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Jackzilla said:
The Roches were over to watch the debate with us and we agreed that if you made a drinking game out of it ("She said 'Maverick' or he said 'Scranton' take another shot!") you would be Woooooo Fucked Up by the end of the night!
Good Lord. Just watched SNL and "doggone it!" if they didn't have Palin refer to the debate as a drinking game ("maverick")!
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Since both the Senate and the House have passed the Bailout Bill, you would think the stock market would rally. Instead, it's dropped 4 to 5 hundred points. Hold on to your horses because I think we are in deep shit. Without having actually read the finer points of the bill, I may be speaking out of turn but my gut feeling says that they are going about it the wrong way. So the greediest, most irresponsible corporations are getting a loan from the taxpayers. What is that going to do? They are still going to be fucked up and now they owe even more money? It's like giving a chronic gambler a couple grand because he's out of money. I would not be surprised if we enter into another depression like the 1920s.
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Try 700 points!
But I don't think we're headed for a major depression of that magnitude. I guess it all depends on how you define depression, but everything I've been reading lately seems to indicate that - contrary to what Democrats would have us believe, perhaps - there is still enough regulation in the government to prevent it.
That being said, we still could be in for some Shitty Times, whether you call it a depression or not. I do tend to believe (though not strongly) that the bailout will probably do more good than harm, but I see this as something that we're just going to have to ride out, hope we can tell when we've hit bottom, and try to ride the inevitable upturn for all it's worth. As a coworker of mine said today, downturns never last for more than 3 years, which is how long the Great Depression lasted, and most are considerably less.
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Try 800 Points!
Hey! I've discovered a new drinking game! Take a shot for every 100 points the market drops!
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I am a lightweight Zilla. Two beers and I am drunk!
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Bunky's back, Bone!
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And closes with a total drop of 370 points! I don't know about you all, but I'm scared to look at my investment accounts these days.
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I found this quote on the internets and it amused me:
"America is not at war the U.S. military is at war. America is at the mall."
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I won't look at my investment portfolios and I am taking a news break for a day or two. It is too depressing.
Zilla, maybe Fatty can play some of your drinking games when he visits and we can get some new sweet quotes on here! You also have a verbal lashing coming your way as well...
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Bert - to quote Fenster, "I don't know, it's bad". Things seem to be bad on a Global scale. The Nikkei drops 9.4 percent - the biggest one day drop since 1987. Iceland's economy went from stellar to one of the most dire because it hinges on global banking. We passed the bill to bailout corporations and the U.S. market's plummet wasn't affected in the slightest. Ford Motor Company just announced it would lay off 6000 workers. The Fed just dropped interest by half a point but I don't think it will matter because the fundamental problem with our system is our money is an abstract accounting concept created out of thin air. This article, written in 2004, seems to be spot on with it's prediction of our current crisis.
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Bone, does your article link go to my Master's Economic Thesis? This craziness today makes as much sense as my Shitepaper. I am actually concerned now, which is a scary thing for me. This has gone far beyond dire. I cannot even image what could happen next.
One thing for sure, if you have cash on hand, I'd be looking to snatch up some bargain companies. Of course wait for things to settle down, but any solid bank stock would be a great choice to snatch up. Banks would rebound the fastest in share price, plus in a 'normal' enviroment are safe bets. The future climate seems to favor the remaining banks once things are back on track. I've heard of quite a few companies trading well under their book value.
If this continues, follow Bones advice - invest in shotguns.... or even mattresses for people to throw their money under when all the banks fail. Robot - how about you put together a 'Fail' poster for president. Hmmmm, who would we put on it? It like to see you submit it. That one just might make the internet rounds quickly.
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Fatty - to view the Bush Fail, simply visit this site.
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Ahhhhh.... Yes, Bush would make a good one. I was thinking Van Buren myself.
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Here is a good, simple article on the 'loss' in the world stock and real estate market. The loss is not real money, but potential money. If you don't sell your shares or your house, you are not necessarily losing money, but the potential to get that value. With that said, if you need to sell in the short term, it might as well be real money. I can't believe the selling panic of last week. If you have a long term plan, then you have not lost anything but the idea of getting that value. Real value is what you actually get paid. Its like selling anything. I don't care how much you say something is worth, the actual value is the amount someone actually pays you for it. My poor house. Currently it has no worth. I have yet to have any offer. The actual value will be determined when someone offers me an amount that gives me the same or more value (not necessarily all monetary value) than I value my home ownership.
Ownership in great companies are trading at a mere fraction of their value earlier this year. Stock prices have little to do with company operations, except for their ability to raise new capital (which could be important for a company in financial trouble). But, a lot of these companies are good, solid stocks with low prices due to the panic. Warren Buffet is loving this market - this is what he lives for and why he is a Billionaire. Buying strong and undervalued companies.
Anyway... On my vacation next week, maybe I look for some good companies to make a quick few grand off of this year.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_bi_ge/where_s_the_money
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Again, I really think there should be a test to qualify you to vote. Nothing too extensive, just something to show you understand the basics of our nation's history, the constitution, basic economic theory, etc. The main problem with democracy is the issues are so complex people can't possibly understand it all, however, if they can demonstrate just a bare bones basic level, I'd be happy and we might have very different elections. Hell, we may even get to the point where we independents stand a good chance.
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This was posted on Facebook from a friend of mine today:
John McCain: If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack
Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr.
Obama as "not one of us," I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most
unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of
potentially instigating violence.
At a Sarah Palin rally, someone called out, "Kill him!" At one of your
rallies, someone called out, "Terrorist!" Neither was answered or
denounced by you or your running mate, as the crowd laughed and
cheered. At your campaign event Wednesday in Bethlehem, Pa., the crowd
was seething with hatred for the Democratic nominee - an attitude
encouraged in speeches there by you, your running mate, your wife and
the local Republican chairman.
Shame!
John McCain: In 2000, as a lifelong Republican, I worked to get you
elected instead of George W. Bush. In return, you wrote an endorsement
of one of my books about military service. You seemed to be a man who
put principle ahead of mere political gain.
You have changed. You have a choice: Go down in history as a decent
senator and an honorable military man with many successes, or go down
in history as the latest abettor of right-wing extremist hate.
John McCain, you are no fool, and you understand the depths of hatred
that surround the issue of race in this country. You also know that,
post-9/11, to call someone a friend of a terrorist is a very serious
matter. You also know we are a bitterly divided country on many other
issues. You know that, sadly, in America, violence is always just a
moment away. You know that there are plenty of crazy people out there.
Stop! Think! Your rallies are beginning to look, sound, feel and smell like lynch mobs.
John McCain, you're walking a perilous line. If you do not stand up for
all that is good in America and declare that Senator Obama is a
patriot, fit for office, and denounce your hate-filled supporters when
they scream out "Terrorist" or "Kill him," history will hold you
responsible for all that follows.
John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know
it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to
the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing
this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a
history of assassinations.
Change the atmosphere of your campaign. Talk about the issues at hand.
Make your case. But stop stirring up the lunatic fringe of haters, or
risk suffering the judgment of history and the loathing of the American
people - forever.
We will hold you responsible.
Frank Schaeffer (R)
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I'm disgusted.
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I'm disgustipated.
The bizarre thing is, in her speech, Palin said she read about the Obama-Ayers connection in The New York Times. Now, this guy's op-ed piece will surely be slandered by the McCain campaign for being a product of the "liberal media." Man, I hate politics.
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Oh please, she doesn't read the New York times. She couldn't name a single publication she read to Katie Couric. Odds are, one of her handlers told her about it. I bet the bitch can't even read...
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She's too busy trying to ban books to read.
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Ha! After I said that, I thought about going back and saying something about banning rather than reading...
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It's shit like that that really makes me sour on democracy. How is my vote the same as hers? Actually, my vote is basically worthless (in a good way, this time around) because Obama will carry Illinois, no problem. But there are people as stupid as her - stupider, even - that will be voting in states that are in contest, and therefore mean a lot more than mine. Oh, the humanity...
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Yeah, that's true, I did read that she didn't actually ban anything and the list of books was clearly bunk, but she did seem to have a pretty adversarial relationship with her librarian just on the basis of "loyalty" alone - sounds like Bush-style cronyism to me. She did give hypothetical scenarios to the librarian asking "What if" I wanted to ban something and the librarian was against it, which sounds like it fueled the bad relationship.
So even though she never followed through on anything, I still feel pretty comfortable lumping her in with the lot with the anti-intellectuals who view free speech as a nuisance.
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Ronnie got owned!
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